Forum > The World
Whither, Democracy?
Super Colin Blow:
This thread isn't about foreign policy, but I decided it probably fit best in "the World" category.
I read Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein. I do not agree with everything he writes, but he does have some decent salient points about democracy. He thinks it is doomed to failure because of its flaws.
One flaw I have noticed is that there is, in every democracy with which I know anything about, still a "democratic elite" that controls the votes of the less influential elements of society.
I'm not saying that democracy isn't superior to communism, fascism, or other such perverse forms of government. I would much rather live in a democracy than in a communist dictatorship. The elite in those forms of government get away with a lot of **** that democratic leaders wouldn't.
One of you started a thread about the Trudeau "brand". Politicians are often chosen by their brand images, and not via careful thought. one would think, why would you want to trade democracy for a Heinleinian "meritocracy" (or whatever his form of government should be called)? Especially considering that you're essentially shrinking the number of watchdogs of freedom to do so? But of course, the democratic watchdogs are usually asleep on the job. It took them nothing to earn their positions, all they had to do was file the papers, run for election, and deceive the electorate into voting for them.
Will democracy eventually fail, as Heinlein predicted? Or is it really the best form of government we'll ever come up with?
I hope Heinlein is dead wrong. But as the days pass I am more convinced that there is at least something to his arguments.
Squidward von Squidderson:
In Heinlen’s Starship Troopers, it was a one-world government led by the military elite. This was necessary due to people being too soft and moral decay. The one-world gov’t was in reaction to China trying to take over the world.
I guess if you feel that people are too soft and moral decay will be the end of society, you may have a point to make.
But I think the case for a democracy failing for those reasons is rather hard to make these days. The Communist regimes are all but gone and democracy has spread around the world considerably. So Heilen’s case is rather weak, IMO.
Super Colin Blow:
Not a military elite, an EX military elite. People who had a military career, and were therefore still "active duty", were not Heinlein's "citizens". Had to be a veteran, not active duty, to be one of the Federation's citizens.
And of course we cannot see the future. I see weaknesses in democracies that may be our undoing, perhaps one day. Communism had fatal flaws, and they weren't necessarily apparent until the secretariat of Mikhail Gorbachev, or his few most immediate predecessors.
Maybe we will go to war with China. I thought, however, that the war between the UK/US/Russia vs. the Chinese "hegemony" he called it was triggered by the failing democracies wanting to go to war to squash internal unrest?
Then again, that could have happened in the States during and after Vietnam. And of course it didn't.
And, of course, Donald Trump wouldn't be president.
I'm not advocating this, but I am wondering if it'll eventually happen. Maybe at that time, the only choices left will be anarchy, dictatorship, or the aforementioned ex-military meritocracy imagined by Heinlein.
Squidward von Squidderson:
--- Quote ---I'm not advocating this, but I am wondering if it'll eventually happen.
--- End quote ---
So far, the evidence is the opposite. There are more democracies and more freedom in the world, not less. And the trend is a good one, so far.
Super Colin Blow:
--- Quote from: the_squid on January 30, 2019, 03:50:00 pm ---So far, the evidence is the opposite. There are more democracies and more freedom in the world, not less. And the trend is a good one, so far.
--- End quote ---
True. But then again, Communism was once on the increase. Reds under the beds and all that.
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