Author Topic: Whither, Democracy?  (Read 1808 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2021, 06:56:22 am »
https://www.charityintelligence.ca/charity-details/1-aga-khan-foundation-canada

The Aga Khan Foundation Canada headquarters is located in Ottawa across the street from Global Affairs Canada and a 3-minute drive from 24 Sussex and Parliament Hill.  That's what lobbyists do.  Also, charities like the Trudeau Foundation, Trump Foundation, and Clinton Foundation (founded in 1997 while Billy Boy was still in office lol) can be used for all sorts of "donations" by anyone or any 3rd party.  I have no idea what agreements are made behind closed doors, that's the whole point.

Guilt by proximity.

Quote

That also includes a ton of foreign donations.

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/money-began-to-rain-on-trudeau-foundation-once-justin-took-over-liberals-analysis-shows

Ok.  No smoking gun.

Offline MH

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2021, 06:57:49 am »
Ok - just saw the graph. 

Maybe - but are you saying Trudeau will personally benefit ?  Or is this just a way to ingratiate people to him ?

Does O'Toole have a foundation ?

And as Jack Benny famously said to Steve Allen:

"You wouldn't make that accusation if Waldo [my writers] was here !"

Offline eyeball

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2021, 10:43:26 am »
What's in it for us when lobbyists and politicians meet and discuss affairs and issues that belong in the public's domain and how do we protect our interest?
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Offline MH

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2021, 10:52:44 am »
Everyone is allowed to ask for stuff.

Theoretically, some large organization that is working your interests also gets access. Theoretically.

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2021, 11:25:20 am »
And as Jack Benny famously said to Steve Allen:

"You wouldn't make that accusation if Waldo [my writers] was here !"
Actually it was Fred Allen. I was the only Jack Benny aficionado in my Grade 5 class.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2021, 11:56:09 am »
Everyone is allowed to ask for stuff.

Theoretically, some large organization that is working your interests also gets access. Theoretically.

I find this extremely naive.  Individuals get access to politicians simply for being rich business tycoons, or they are paid lobbyists.  Individuals, like you and me, donít get access whatsoever.

Offline MH

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2021, 12:53:28 pm »
Actually it was Fred Allen. I was the only Jack Benny aficionado in my Grade 5 class.

I knew I liked you for some reason.

Offline MH

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2021, 12:54:17 pm »
I find this extremely naive.  Individuals get access to politicians simply for being rich business tycoons, or they are paid lobbyists.  Individuals, like you and me, donít get access whatsoever.

I'm not saying I buy into this design concept, I am only relating it.

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2021, 11:11:25 am »
I find this extremely naive.  Individuals get access to politicians simply for being rich business tycoons, or they are paid lobbyists.  Individuals, like you and me, donít get access whatsoever.

Part of the problem--part mind you, and in my opinion--is that the growing population means there's more people per MP/congressman/whatever. How can they know 100,000 of their fellow citizens well enough to really understand their problems?
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Offline MH

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2021, 11:44:13 am »
Part of the problem--part mind you, and in my opinion--is that the growing population means there's more people per MP/congressman/whatever. How can they know 100,000 of their fellow citizens well enough to really understand their problems?

Well, they don't.  They use TV advertising to get them to vote against their interests - although that model is dying somewhat.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2021, 04:17:28 pm »
It's a dirty game at the top.  People will do literally anything they can get away with to win.

There's a lot of wealthy corporations with vested interests in the US.  In Canada it's mostly banks, developers, and oil.

SNC Lavalin is none of those, but seem to have enormous influence with the government, as does Bombardier and Power Corp, not to mention the Irvings.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2022, 01:41:07 am »
Since we are talking about democracy, I think this might be relevant...

From: https://www.businessinsider.com/civil-war-experts-indicators-us-on-brink-of-conflict-historian-2022-1
Though the idea of another civil war in the near future might seem far-fetched to many Americans, people who study such conflicts may disagree, according to Timothy Snyder, a history professor at Yale University....  he feared the US might not survive if former President Donald Trump were to run again in 2024.... He cited the high degree of polarization, beliefs in alternative realities, and celebration of violence. As an example of the latter, he pointed to some who reflexively praised the actions of Kyle Rittenhouse...

From: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/next-us-civil-war-already-here-we-refuse-to-see-it
The legal system grows less legitimate by the day. Trust in government...is in freefall, or, like Congress, with approval ratings hovering around 20%, cannot fall any lower. Right now, elected sheriffs openly promote resistance to federal authority...militias train and arm themselves in preparation for the fall of the Republic.... doctrines of a radical, unachievable, messianic freedom spread across the internet, on talk radio, on cable television, in the malls....The Capitol police have seen threats against members of Congress increase by 107%.
...
Most of the American right have abandoned faith in government...Their politics is, increasingly, the politics of the gun. The American left is slower on the uptake, but they are starting to figure out that the system which they give the name of democracy is less deserving of the name every year. An incipient illegitimacy crisis is under way, whoever is elected in 2022, or in 2024.
...
The right is preparing for a breakdown of law and order, but they are also overtaking the forces of law and order. Hard right organization have now infiltrated so many police forces Ė the connections number in the hundreds Ė that they have become unreliable allies in the struggle against domestic terrorism.


So is it possible for the U.S. to have a second civil war? I've seen news clips of pro-Trump supporters talking about "getting guns" to fight the democrats. And we've seen the pictures of 2 Trump supporters wearing "Rather russian than democrat" t-shirts (while at the same time claiming they are "patriots").

If civil war does break out, it won't be like the 1800s (where a bunch of states seceded). Instead it will be messier/more chaotic. If Republicans win later elections using shady tactics (like they tend to do), its possible that you will see wide-scale protests that get out of hand. The police will use abusive tactics, protesters will decide "If cops are going to 'bust heads' I'm going to drop any pretense of peaceful protest and start going armed." If Democrats win, right wingers will replay the January 6 terrorist attack (fueled on more delusions and lies), with many/most cops dropping any pretense of stopping the terrorists.

Offline MH

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2022, 07:00:35 am »
As you say, armed conflict between the states won't happen... But a much worse disintegration and Balkanization.

I think that a new kind of union with the US could result... Like an EU.

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: Whither, Democracy?
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2022, 11:59:26 am »
As you say, armed conflict between the states won't happen... But a much worse disintegration and Balkanization.

I think that a new kind of union with the US could result... Like an EU.

How do you mean exactly?
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength