Author Topic: UN official warns of Yemeni Situation  (Read 65 times)

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Offline MH

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UN official warns of Yemeni Situation
« on: November 09, 2017, 06:34:14 am »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41923769

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Yemen faces the world's largest famine in decades "with millions of victims" if aid deliveries are not resumed, a senior UN official has warned. Mark Lowcock, the UN under-secretary general for humanitarian affairs, urged the Saudi-led coalition to lift its blockade of the conflict-torn country.

This is our ally, to whom we are selling arms.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: UN official warns of Yemeni Situation
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 09:37:50 am »
Saudi's situation regarding Yemen was widely discussed at the time we had the opportunity to cancel that sale.  It's not like this should be a surprise to anybody.  It's not like our leaders who opted to continue the sale can look at this situation and say "gee! Who could have anticipated this?"  because everybody anticipated this.

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: UN official warns of Yemeni Situation
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 11:27:17 am »
Saudi's situation regarding Yemen was widely discussed at the time we had the opportunity to cancel that sale.  It's not like this should be a surprise to anybody.  It's not like our leaders who opted to continue the sale can look at this situation and say "gee! Who could have anticipated this?"  because everybody anticipated this.

 -k

Calling them an ally is a stretch. We sold them the armored vehicles because we're in the business of selling armored vehicles - or at least that company located here is in that business. What would have been the point of refusing the sale?  Is anyone under the slightest illusion this would stop Saudi Arabia from simply buying from any of a dozen other sellers of such vehicles? And what of the company that makes them? Their armored vehicles are also used by Egypt, Mexico, Iraq,  and the UAE among others. Do we tell them they can't sell them to anyone who doesn't have a stirling human rights record? The inevitable result will be the company will shift production to the US, firing its Canadian workers.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: UN official warns of Yemeni Situation
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 08:44:28 am »
Calling them an ally is a stretch.

Is it ? 

I think this is the kind of discussion where we will mostly disagree slightly, and I like those.  But I feel like since our closest ally protects them, and in fact had a military base there in the 1990s we can consider them an ally.

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We sold them the armored vehicles because we're in the business of selling armored vehicles - or at least that company located here is in that business. What would have been the point of refusing the sale?  Is anyone under the slightest illusion this would stop Saudi Arabia from simply buying from any of a dozen other sellers of such vehicles?

"Hey man, those kids are gonna buy meth from somebody.  Might as well be me."

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And what of the company that makes them? Their armored vehicles are also used by Egypt, Mexico, Iraq,  and the UAE among others. Do we tell them they can't sell them to anyone who doesn't have a stirling human rights record? The inevitable result will be the company will shift production to the US, firing its Canadian workers.

Slippery slope argument.  Just because it's hard to draw a line doesn't mean you should try to draw one.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: UN official warns of Yemeni Situation
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 10:55:39 am »
Is it ? 

I think this is the kind of discussion where we will mostly disagree slightly, and I like those.  But I feel like since our closest ally protects them, and in fact had a military base there in the 1990s we can consider them an ally.

I would argue they're not an American ally either. They have a few mutual interests around oil, economics, and, to a degree, terrorism, that's all.

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"Hey man, those kids are gonna buy meth from somebody.  Might as well be me."

Except for the fact that what is being sold is legal, and can be used constructively - our military uses them -  which meth can't, and that it's not being sold to children.
Also the fact that most of the sellers are beyond our jurisdiction, as are most of the buyers.

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Slippery slope argument.  Just because it's hard to draw a line doesn't mean you should try to draw one.

You want to draw one with other people's jobs and money, though, in order to salve your conscience.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: UN official warns of Yemeni Situation
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 11:04:36 am »
I would argue they're not an American ally either. They have a few mutual interests around oil, economics, and, to a degree, terrorism, that's all.

Ok.  Protectorate ?  I think we agree anyway.

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Except for the fact that what is being sold is legal, and can be used constructively - our military uses them -  which meth can't, and that it's not being sold to children. Also the fact that most of the sellers are beyond our jurisdiction, as are most of the buyers.

Legal isn't moral.  I challenge you to draw a moral line that both of us would accept.  That would be interesting.

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You want to draw one with other people's jobs and money, though, in order to salve your conscience.

Moral decisions can always have implications to good people.  Your conscience seems to worry about them also.

See if you can draw a line we can both accept.  I think you're up to it.