Author Topic: Socialism  (Read 396 times)

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Offline Bodhavista

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Socialism
« on: September 02, 2017, 03:05:18 pm »
"If I had a dollar for every time socialism worked I'd have zero dollars.
Coincidentally if socialism worked I'd also have zero dollars".

Nothing to see here folks. It doesn't work.

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Offline TimG

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 03:22:55 pm »
"If I had a dollar for every time socialism worked I'd have zero dollars.
Coincidentally if socialism worked I'd also have zero dollars".
You need to define what you mean by "socialism". We can't have a free market society worth living in without some elements of "socialism". So the question is not socialism vs capitalism but how do we balance the conflicting requirements.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 09:51:20 pm »
"If I had a dollar for every time socialism worked I'd have zero dollars.
Coincidentally if socialism worked I'd also have zero dollars".

Nothing to see here folks. It doesn't work.

What doesn't work? 
Unemployment insurance?
Maternity leave?
Environmental regulation?

Be specific about what doesn't work.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 10:02:49 pm »
What doesn't work? 
Unemployment insurance?
Maternity leave?
Environmental regulation?

Be specific about what doesn't work.

And may I add ocialized health care?

Offline JMT

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2017, 10:45:49 pm »
And may I add ocialized health care?

First, you have to tell me what that is :P
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Offline Omni

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2017, 10:52:02 pm »
First, you have to tell me what that is :P

It means everybody who needs them gets free glasses.

Offline JMT

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2017, 10:55:14 pm »
Seriously though, if socialism has failed, so has capitalism.  There's a reason modern countries are set up as they are. 

Offline Omni

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 11:19:24 pm »
Seriously though, if socialism has failed, so has capitalism.  There's a reason modern countries are set up as they are.

I like the mix we have in Canada. Such things as health, education and welfare should not be set up as "for profit" corporations. When it comes to making and selling widgets, let the best man win.
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Offline MH

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 10:16:27 am »
But you can't negate the potential for improvement using private services.  Huge parts of our systems use private services in strategic ways.

Offline JMT

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 12:42:19 pm »
But you can't negate the potential for improvement using private services.  Huge parts of our systems use private services in strategic ways.

Private delivery with socialized payment, so...

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 02:35:49 pm »
But you can't negate the potential for improvement using private services.  Huge parts of our systems use private services in strategic ways.

Likewise, there is also huge potential for improving public services.  Sure.

But fundamentally, I agree with Omni that things like healthcare and education should remain public.

Offline MH

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 07:58:06 pm »
They will remain single-payer but private firms operate to help these initiatives succeed.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2017, 08:38:17 pm »
They will remain single-payer but private firms operate to help these initiatives succeed.

Doesn't work. By way of example, feeling sick at 11 at night? Better go to the hospital. There are no private clinics open. Why? Because to entice doctors and nurses to work in the evening or overnight hours you need to pay them higher fees. The government refuses to do that, so no private clinics operate after hours. Want a doctor at home? Sorry, that would require extra fees, which the government won't allow. If you can't make it to a hospital best call an ambulance.

All European countries allow added fees for extra services, for-fee hospitals, clinics, etc. The result is a better system than we have here.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2017, 08:42:57 pm »
Doesn't work. By way of example, feeling sick at 11 at night? Better go to the hospital. There are no private clinics open. Why? Because to entice doctors and nurses to work in the evening or overnight hours you need to pay them higher fees. The government refuses to do that, so no private clinics operate after hours. Want a doctor at home? Sorry, that would require extra fees, which the government won't allow. If you can't make it to a hospital best call an ambulance.

All European countries allow added fees for extra services, for-fee hospitals, clinics, etc. The result is a better system than we have here.

I'm not advancing some new proposal.  I'm describing how things work today.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Socialism
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2017, 09:22:01 pm »
I'm not advancing some new proposal.  I'm describing how things work today.

Or don't work. I don't get why so many people seem to feel that the Europeans must be evil capitalist scum who don't care if poor people die. Their systems actually work better than ours.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum