Author Topic: Russia vs Ukraine war  (Read 8617 times)

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Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #450 on: November 22, 2022, 07:04:55 pm »
Must really bug you that Vlad's mighty army is getting its butt kicked by a country less than a third the size.
Not at all.  I’m glad.  I’m just not an advocate of WWIII and endless money to Ukraine.  I also acknowledge some of the reasons why the war happened in the first place.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #451 on: November 23, 2022, 10:09:35 pm »
Not at all.  I’m glad.  I’m just not an advocate of WWIII and endless money to Ukraine.  I also acknowledge some of the reasons why the war happened in the first place.
The war happened because Putin wants the old Russian empire back and didn't like not having a puppet in power in Ukraine.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #452 on: November 24, 2022, 02:43:43 pm »
Shiddy thinks the Russians went in to save the Ukrainians from Nazis!
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Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #453 on: November 24, 2022, 02:46:24 pm »
The war happened because Putin wants the old Russian empire back and didn't like not having a puppet in power in Ukraine.
It also happened because NATO broke its promise and expanded to Russia’s border.  After toppling the Ukrainian government in 2014 by coup.  But whatever. 
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #454 on: November 24, 2022, 02:54:21 pm »
It also happened because NATO broke its promise and expanded to Russia’s border.  After toppling the Ukrainian government in 2014 by coup.  But whatever.

This is verbatim a Kremlin talking point. For the record, no such promise was ever made and NATO expansion happened because a number of countries requested membership to safeguard them from Russia.
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Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #455 on: November 24, 2022, 03:38:08 pm »
For context:

To understand Russia’s claims of betrayal, it is necessary to review the reassurances then US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO’s secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels.
https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east

Also, Obama's secretary of defence predicted in 2014 that Nato expansion would result in a war in Ukraine because Russia would see it as an existential threat.  But nobody listened.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #456 on: November 24, 2022, 04:26:50 pm »
For context:

To understand Russia’s claims of betrayal, it is necessary to review the reassurances then US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO’s secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels.
https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east

lol. lmao, even.

Quote
Russia and the West finally struck an agreement in September that would allow NATO to station its troops beyond the Iron Curtain. However, the deal only concerned a reunified Germany, with further eastward expansion being inconceivable at the time.

"The Soviet Union still existed and the countries of Eastern Europe were still part of the Soviet structures – like the Warsaw Pact – which was not officially dissolved until July 1991,"  said Amélie Zima, doctor of political science at the Thucydide Centre (Panthéon-Assas) in Paris. "We cannot speak of betrayal, because a chain of events that would rearrange the security configuration in Europe was about to take place."   

In short, at a time when Westerners were offering the "guarantees" spoken of by Vladimir Putin, no one could have predicted the collapse of the USSR and the historic upheavals that followed.

"In addition, these promises were made orally and were never recorded in a treaty,” recalled Olivier Kempf, associate researcher at the Foundation for Strategic Research. "The turning point of NATO enlargement came much later, in 1995, at the request of the Eastern European countries."

That year, NATO published a study on its enlargement before starting membership talks two years later with Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic, all of which would become members in 1999. The addition of these new members has long sparked debate within NATO, thus undermining the Russian myth of a betrayal orchestrated by the West. "Even within the American administration, some thought that NATO should not expand because it would make it less effective, dilute its skills and become a financial burden," explained Zima.

I gotta say, "The mainstream media fooled me into supporting the Iraq war so I'm going to treat them with total skepticism while believing every word that comes out of a murderous dictator's mouth" is a very funny pivot.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 05:26:48 pm by Black Dog »

Offline wilber

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #457 on: November 27, 2022, 03:29:01 pm »
It also happened because NATO broke its promise and expanded to Russia’s border.  After toppling the Ukrainian government in 2014 by coup.  But whatever.

So you think that warrants what Russia is inflicting on the Ukrainian people.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #458 on: December 04, 2022, 05:54:07 pm »
Ukraine has banned Russian orthodox churches, and is now conducting raids among them.  This is not a good look for them at all.

Ukraine Raids Holy Site Amid Suspicion of Orthodox Church Tied to Moscow
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/22/world/europe/ukraine-russia-monastery-caves.html
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #459 on: December 04, 2022, 06:27:29 pm »
The pro-Putin faction of the Republican party is the scariest development. Shady should remind himself daily that he's an idiot who is easily manipulated with misinformation and then STFU.

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #460 on: December 04, 2022, 07:04:01 pm »
But do you really think rooting out enemy agents in a Russian church after being invaded by Russia is "a bad look"? How stupid are you now?
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Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #461 on: December 04, 2022, 07:18:07 pm »
But do you really think rooting out enemy agents in a Russian church after being invaded by Russia is "a bad look"? How stupid are you now?
I swear you’d defend Ukrainian internment camps for Russian citizens too.  You literally have learned nothing over the past few decades.  Not only that, but you defend it now!  Utterly pathetic and disgusting.
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #462 on: December 04, 2022, 08:00:04 pm »
At least the smart Republicans get paid well for carrying water for Putin. You do it for nothing.
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Offline Slim Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #463 on: December 04, 2022, 08:29:51 pm »
At least the smart Republicans get paid well for carrying water for Putin. You do it for nothing.
Your schtick is old and repetitive.  You can’t silence people with legitimate questions and concerns with your McCarthyistic tactics.  Senator McCarthy would be quite proud of you for trying.
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #464 on: December 04, 2022, 09:04:58 pm »
Silence? You're much too stupid for that.