Author Topic: Russia vs Ukraine war  (Read 19747 times)

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Offline Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2022, 01:03:16 pm »
Finland didn't, during WW2. They were invaded by the USSR and by Nazi Germany. Finns fought on both sides.

And as far as Sweden being neutral in WW2, what of it? As far as Swiss neutrality over the years, what of that as well? You've got the fishing pole out and only red herrings are coming up.
I’m not referring to world war 2, I’m taking about the decades following, and at the present time.

Online Black Dog

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2022, 01:05:46 pm »
Here's an idea maybe Ukraine should get to decide its alignment status and not be forced into neutrality at gunpoint.
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Offline Super Colin Blow

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2022, 01:13:29 pm »
Here's an idea maybe Ukraine should get to decide its alignment status and not be forced into neutrality at gunpoint.
I’m not referring to world war 2, I’m taking about the decades following, and at the present time.

In which case the situation is definitely not comparable to the present invasion of the Ukraine. Sweden is not NATO but it's part of the EU, most of which is under the umbrella of NATO. In 2022, as in the 1940s, Switzerland is too difficult to invade and conquer. It would be a bloodbath for any idiot deciding to.

Now can we stop with the red herrings? The non aligned countries you keep fishing for aren't the Ukraine. There are similarities with other countries present and past, but the ones you have mentioned are not in similar situations.

I'll reiterate: non aligned or aligned, a country cannot defend itself by pleasing its neighbors, particularly hostile ones. Period.

I believe, Black Dog, you nailed it. At least you're not in favor of appeasing belligerent powers.
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Offline Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2022, 01:23:11 pm »
Here's an idea maybe Ukraine should get to decide its alignment status and not be forced into neutrality at gunpoint.
That would be ideal, but that’s not always the case in the real world.  Things aren’t always fair.  Here’s an idea, since you’re so gung ho for war, maybe you should head over their and fight.  Instead of insisting other people do so.

Online wilber

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2022, 01:28:57 pm »
Well, if it stops the war, it’s a good thing.  Maybe all Putin ever wanted was a guarantee that NATO wouldn’t expand into Ukraine.

Stop a war he should never have started.
I think he is surprised at the resistance, both by Ukraine and in Russia itself and is getting cold feet.
Ukraine could turn into another Afghanistan for Putin.
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Online wilber

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2022, 01:34:59 pm »
Finland and Sweden also have non-aligned status.

Sweden is definitely aligned with the West and has built up its military and reintroduced compulsory military service because of the Russian threat to the region. Switzerland also has compulsory military service as do Finland and all the Scandinavian countries.
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Online Black Dog

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2022, 01:36:16 pm »
That would be ideal, but that’s not always the case in the real world.  Things aren’t always fair.  Here’s an idea, since you’re so gung ho for war, maybe you should head over their and fight.  Instead of insisting other people do so.

Funny that I, a guy who is broadly against war and foreign military interventions of any kind, is being accused of being "gung ho for war" by a guy who was an Iraq war cheerleader. You'd think that would teach you some humility with regards to opining on these things.

Offline Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2022, 01:37:27 pm »
Funny that I, a guy who is broadly against war and foreign military interventions of any kind, is being accused of being "gung ho for war" by a guy who was an Iraq war cheerleader. You'd think that would teach you some humility with regards to opining on these things.
You’d think you would have learned as well.  At least I have.  You, not so much.

Online wilber

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2022, 01:40:14 pm »
Finland didn't, during WW2. They were invaded by the USSR and by Nazi Germany. Finns fought on both sides.

And as far as Sweden being neutral in WW2, what of it? As far as Swiss neutrality over the years, what of that as well? You've got the fishing pole out and only red herrings are coming up.

Finland wasn't invaded by Germany, it joined Germany in an effort to get back the territory lost to the Soviets in the Winter War.
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Online Black Dog

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2022, 01:41:37 pm »
You’d think you would have learned as well.  At least I have.  You, not so much.

Why would I need to learn anything, I was the guy who was right about Iraq. You should have listened to me then and you should listen to me now instead of building silly strawmen of what you think my position on this conflict is.

Offline Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2022, 01:43:27 pm »
Why would I need to learn anything, I was the guy who was right about Iraq. You should have listened to me then and you should listen to me now instead of building silly strawmen of what you think my position on this conflict is.
You’re the one downplaying a potential peaceful solution to this conflict, so that you can cheer on a continued war.

Online Black Dog

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2022, 01:43:38 pm »
Finland wasn't invaded by Germany, it joined Germany in an effort to get back the territory lost to the Soviets in the Winter War.

Finland fought the Nazis in the Lapland War of 1944.

Online Black Dog

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2022, 01:45:13 pm »
You’re the one downplaying a potential peaceful solution to this conflict, so that you can cheer on a continued war.

Oh look another strawman. You really suck at this.


« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 01:50:10 pm by Black Dog »

Offline Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2022, 01:48:28 pm »
Oh look another strawman. You really suck at this.
It’s exactly what you did.  Ukraine offering non-aligned status is a legitimate way to possibly end the conflict. 

Offline Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine war
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2022, 01:49:14 pm »
Stop a war he should never have started.
I think he is surprised at the resistance, both by Ukraine and in Russia itself and is getting cold feet.
Ukraine could turn into another Afghanistan for Putin.
I agree.  I think it’s becoming much more difficult than anticipated.