Author Topic: Russia and America to go war  (Read 246 times)

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guest4

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Russia and America to go war
« on: June 19, 2017, 09:05:23 pm »
Some Syrian bombs landed too close to American troops in Syria, and the US shoots down a Syrian plane.    Russia is now offering to shoot down American planes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/19/world/middleeast/russia-syria.html

Maybe too conspiracy theory, but my first thought was -  Can/will Trump now claim that he's really not Putin's ****?


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Offline JMT

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 09:31:10 pm »
There's a worse (for us) theory of what may happen.  Russia won't dare shoot down a US aircraft.  A coalition one?  Maybe.  After all, Trump hasn't really been there for any of his allies.  That's an especially worrying theory, considering that Canada is still operating two aircraft over Syria on a semi regular basis.

Offline MH

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2021, 08:45:31 am »
This Twitter thread makes a convincing case that Russia will invade Ukraine

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1473362460673515527

Offline eyeball

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2021, 11:21:02 am »
Oh well maybe even Biden will be looking for a dog to wag come the New Year.  Maybe the news won't be so dominated with COVID too, that would be a change. The issues are just so stupid and Ukraine and Taiwan are just so far away it all seems like too much effort to worry about.

Offline MH

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2021, 12:57:16 pm »
All of that is fine ...

We have dictatorships who are trying to get people to go over to their side.

Tucker Carlson is clearly rooting for Russia in this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwE_QrXLRI

Offline eyeball

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2021, 01:54:08 pm »
All of that is fine ...

We have dictatorships who are trying to get people to go over to their side.

Tucker Carlson is clearly rooting for Russia in this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUwE_QrXLRI
Yeah but that's just because Trump isn't running things - the same reason so many Covidiots down there refuse to get vaccinated.

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2021, 06:32:27 pm »
This Twitter thread makes a convincing case that Russia will invade Ukraine

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1473362460673515527

If it happens, every single country in the world should mobilize its military forces to defend the side that is attacked.  That was the raison d'etre of the UN:  collective security.   They should then use sanctions to punish the attacking country as a deterrent and method of accountability. Unfortunately the UN is a broken piece of crap because Russia and the other UNSC permanent members have a veto, among other reasons.  This isn't the US's fight if it happens, this is the world's fight vs unlawful aggression of a country's basic sovereignty.

This reminds me very much of the run-up to the Iraq invasion by the US and UK etc.  Except Russia and China have desire to annex territory they see as historic parts of their "empire", no different than Nazi Germany.
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Offline MH

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2021, 06:53:34 pm »
If it happens, every single country in the world should mobilize its military forces to defend the side that is attacked.  That was the raison d'etre of the UN:  collective security.   They should then use sanctions to punish the attacking country as a deterrent and method of accountability. Unfortunately the UN is a broken piece of crap because Russia and the other UNSC permanent members have a veto, among other reasons.  This isn't the US's fight if it happens, this is the world's fight vs unlawful aggression of a country's basic sovereignty.

This reminds me very much of the run-up to the Iraq invasion by the US and UK etc.  Except Russia and China have desire to annex territory they see as historic parts of their "empire", no different than Nazi Germany.

Nothing like that will happen but I believe they will eventually have to withdraw...

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2021, 07:07:40 pm »
Who will have too withdraw?

I get that Russia doesn't want countries on its borders joining NATO.  They see it as a threat to their own borders.  On the other hand, they have to right to decide what sovereign countries do including if they want to join NATO.

But Putin also thinks pretty much all the countries that made up the USSR, including Ukraine, are part of historical Russia and he seeks to unite them under Russian territory.  This includes most of the countries that border Russia.
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Offline MH

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2021, 07:32:34 pm »
Who will have too withdraw?

I get that Russia doesn't want countries on its borders joining NATO.  They see it as a threat to their own borders.  On the other hand, they have to right to decide what sovereign countries do including if they want to join NATO.

But Putin also thinks pretty much all the countries that made up the USSR, including Ukraine, are part of historical Russia and he seeks to unite them under Russian territory.  This includes most of the countries that border Russia.

Russia.... also China from Taiwan and Israel from Palestine ...

First China, then Russia, then Israel

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2021, 11:06:13 pm »
Who will have too withdraw?

I get that Russia doesn't want countries on its borders joining NATO.  They see it as a threat to their own borders.  On the other hand, they have to right to decide what sovereign countries do including if they want to join NATO.

But Putin also thinks pretty much all the countries that made up the USSR, including Ukraine, are part of historical Russia and he seeks to unite them under Russian territory.  This includes most of the countries that border Russia.

This is a country that is assassinating political rivals.  They put a band on a list of people to arrest because they don't like their message.

We are not dealing with rational actors here. 

Unfortunately, not enough Russians are standing up and demanding democracy like they did in the 80's and early 90's.  I see some similarities between the Russian population and Americans who would prefer a fascist dictatorship to someone they might disagree with in power.   

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2022, 07:05:16 am »
Hopefully the rumours that Russia has managed to fashion a mutiny/civil war within the U.S. military that is ready to be triggered by the 2024 election.. That would be a drag.

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2022, 11:31:58 am »
This is a country that is assassinating political rivals.  They put a band on a list of people to arrest because they don't like their message.

We are not dealing with rational actors here. 

Unfortunately, not enough Russians are standing up and demanding democracy like they did in the 80's and early 90's.  I see some similarities between the Russian population and Americans who would prefer a fascist dictatorship to someone they might disagree with in power.

That doesn't make Russia is not rational, it just means Putin is an autocratic dictator who will do anything to maintain power, including censoring musicians that criticize him and killing political opponents.
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Offline Ginxa22

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2022, 10:21:00 pm »
Who will have too withdraw?

I get that Russia doesn't want countries on its borders joining NATO.  They see it as a threat to their own borders.  On the other hand, they have to right to decide what sovereign countries do including if they want to join NATO.

But Putin also thinks pretty much all the countries that made up the USSR, including Ukraine, are part of historical Russia and he seeks to unite them under Russian territory.  This includes most of the countries that border Russia.
I don't get why they let Kurgystan (?) 'go' but won't let Ukraine go? but Ukraine is next to body of water for 'transport' of goods, so, guessing it would make a more 'strategic' capture?
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Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: Russia and America to go war
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2022, 08:34:43 pm »
It's part of the Russian "warm water port" strategy. They have pursued this strategy since way back under the tsars. Russia is massive and rich in resources, but it's in the wrong place, so to speak. It is not easy to ship goods (military or civilian) when every transport ship has to be preceded by an icebreaker. So, they grab the Crimea. Crimea's not quite safe enough with the rest of the Ukraine leaning towards NATO and the European Union, so we'll grab the rest of it just in case. There is a sizeable Russian population in the Crimea and in eastern Ukraine as well. But before anyone says "he's just uniting Russians under one banner" remember where we've heard that before....!!!

I wouldn't worry too much about war if I were Putin. After all, Biden doesn't have the cojones to really put him in his place. We sent the Secretary of State to the Ukraine, but I think it would have sent a stronger signal if we had sent the Secretary of Defense or the Chairman of the JCS. Clearly, Biden doesn't want his nose bloodied--wise when both countries are nuclear powers I admit. But we can't do nothing. Otherwise, it's 1938 all over again, and the Crimea [grabbed a few years back in a "referendum"] was the Sudentenland. Let's hope the rest of the Ukraine isn't Poland.

Is it just me, or is Russa more dangerous now that Moscow has discarded Communism like an old pair of underwear? All this time we were ****-scared of the Russians/the USSR, and in the end, they crumbled under the weight of their own political ineptitude they called a "government". All along, Communism was doomed to collapse. It was a sort of asset we had if we but knew it at the time. Unencumbered by the deadweight of Soviet Socialism, there's nothing they can't accomplish that they want to. We all thought "Oh, how nice, democracy wins the day!" How short-sighted we were! Turns out democracy is a bit more fragile than the buffoons at State thought, and a despot is a despot; just because they call him "President" instead of "party chairman" a rose is still red by any other name.

Then again, maybe I'm just being paranoid. Is CIA hiring?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 08:44:04 pm by SuperColinBlow »
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