Canadian Politics Today

I am going to respond to your comments inviting you to put me on hold or ignore.

You stated:

"It's not arrogant, it's called not putting up with being called an anti-semite every time I mention Israel. That played out enough on the other forum, let's NOT let it happen here. Otherwise I am telling you politely to **** off.  You want to debate, then debate. Call me names and I will tell you to **** off."

Your above comment had nothing to do with the words in your last post I challenged and why. Your words above manifest what appears to be an attempt to bait me into re-engaging in a dispute you think remains unresolved from the other forum. If you feel you have something unresolved from that forum, it belongs there not here. I i


Your comment: "You are very tiresome to deal with."   shows a disconnect from what you stated above. You in fact stated and I quote: "Call me names and I will tell you to **** off."

On the one hand you complain I call you names because I stated the tone of your words come across as arrogant, and then in the next breath in fact call me a name personally. You engage in dissonance, i.e., you engage in the very behaviour you claim should not be done by me.

I called your last comment out as arrogant for one reason and the same as when you repeated it again with this comment:

"Right, so when  I state my view, you have to accept it. You may not like it, but that is just the way it is. "

This is a debate forum. It's about freedom of speech and the right to disagree and explain why we disagree. No one is obliged to agree with you or me.


You stated:

"As I am not a religious person and I really think religions overall are terrible the notion of Israel being a Jewish nation is not something I would talk about. "

In fact you just did. This again shows dissonance.


You stated:

"I don't care if they are Jewish or other. It's not the religion, but the acts of the collective that we are talking about. So when I talk Israel, I am talking Israel not about Jews. "

Again you do care. In fact you make sure to show why you care in the last sentence of the above.You clearly manifest your rejection of Israel being a Jewish state when you  stated: " I am talking Israel not about Jews." Of course Israel is Jewish and about Jews. Your attempt to suggest the two are not connected is not only illogical but again manifests dissonance. For someone who repeats he doesn't care about Israel being Jewish or not you  go to great care to distinguish the two as being different.

You stated:

" You are blinded by your own long term bias against me from the other forum. "

Your decision to  re-engage in issues you have on the other forum are ignored.

You stated:

"Right, so are the settlements in the occupied territories a good thing or a bad thing? Let's talk about your own subjective-ness."

You posed the above as a question you wanted an answer to, then cut it off and state:

"I am not going through this here with you."

I again suggest you demonstrated with the above that you want to try control what I can discuss on this forum.


" Again, you and I agree on the settlements issue, which to me is Israel's biggest problem in terms of how the rest of the world sees them."

Israel does not have a problem with how the world sees it. It has a very real problem with how its own people and how Palestinians and the Arab world see it. If Israel had a problem with how the world saw it, it would never have come into existence and exist as we speak.

When 6 million Jews were slaughtered in Europe the world turned its back on Jews. Had Jews let that be a problem we would have not continued to exist. Israel is the existential expression of the Jewish collective identity precisely because it came to the conclusion Jews as a people could NEVER AGAIN worry about how the world saw them, but they themselves must take charge of how they see the world. It was an act of existential empowerment of saying- you refused to see us-in fact you tried to extinguish us-so we must see ourselves-we must envision ourselves.

Jews had to turn and rely on themselves. The UN, the world turned its back on Jewish refugees. With the exception of France and the US the rest of the world turned its back. There were the Czechs who trained Jews to survive, righteous gentiles who came to Israel to fight side by side Jews, there were Beduins, Druze and Jordanian Arab Muslims who died supporting Jews, but they were exceptions and they are all remembered.

The state of affairs on the West Bank is a raw wound used by terrorists who want a Muslim state in Israel to hold Palestinians captive to carry out their war. Its also been expropriated by certain extremist Jews to justify their hatred of Palestinians. Many of those terrorists are not and have never been Palestinian or Israeli but claim to speak for them and invent their own Palestinian status like Arafat did. He was an Egyptian. Some of the Jewish extremists did not express the views of Israeli citizens just themselves.

You stated:

"UN says, get out of the occupied territories, and when people/nations agrees with that notion, the push back is in the form of calling people Jew haters."

 You throw out the above reference to "push back" suggests you refer to a group you won't identify who you claim call people "Jew haters".  I would argue there is no such people or statement and that you invented and project both. I would argue you throw out a subjective stereotyped assumed belief,  posed as the statements or thoughts of others.