Author Topic: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)  (Read 106320 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1890 on: August 24, 2020, 10:31:48 am »
Whatever waldo. In spite of everything, I'm hoping for the best. For all I know a Conservative government might have done the same thing. It's unfortunate that you have to make everything a partisan issue.

 :o

While Trudeau was having another Kumbaya moment preaching equal distribution of vaccines, other countries have been pro active ensuring their supplies. Canada did nothing.
Maybe keep bringing up the Oxford vaccine because Canada sits on its hands while other countries get positions in it.

Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1891 on: August 24, 2020, 10:39:00 am »
And I would have said exactly the same thing about a Conservative PM if they were doing the same thing.

We are not in a strong position and our government is a good part of the reason.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1892 on: August 24, 2020, 10:45:32 am »
We are not in a strong position and our government is a good part of the reason.

based entirely on your ad nauseum nattering over one (of 7) potential vaccine candidates currently in phase 3 clinical trials - get a grip!

Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1893 on: August 24, 2020, 11:04:10 am »
based entirely on your ad nauseum nattering over one (of 7) potential vaccine candidates currently in phase 3 clinical trials - get a grip!

Don't you find it interesting how many countries have either tied up positions in that vaccine or have agreements to produce it, including the US and China? So far we have banked everything on a couple of RNA vaccines and a failed partnership with China, with no other options.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1894 on: August 24, 2020, 11:38:33 am »
Oxford’s COVID vaccine deal with AstraZeneca raises concerns about access and pricing

member wilber... quite the departure Oxford University took when it aligned with AstraZenaca - yes? That's right... Oxford Uni was {initially}, as you say, so "Kumbaya"... says you:

While Trudeau was having another Kumbaya moment preaching equal distribution of vaccines...

Quote
Oxford University surprised and pleased advocates of overhauling the vaccine business in April by promising to donate the rights to its promising coronavirus vaccine to any drugmaker.

The idea was to provide medicines preventing or treating COVID-19 at a low cost or free of charge, the British university said. That made sense to people seeking change. The coronavirus was raging. Many agreed that traditional vaccine development, characterized by long lead times, manufacturing monopolies and weak investment, was broken.

“We actually thought they were going to do that,” James Love, director of Knowledge Ecology International, a nonprofit that works to expand access to medical technology, said of Oxford’s pledge. “Why wouldn’t people agree to let everyone have access to the best vaccines possible?”

A few weeks later, Oxford—urged on by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation—reversed course. It signed an exclusive vaccine deal with AstraZeneca that gave the pharmaceutical giant sole rights and no guarantee of low prices—with the less-publicized potential for Oxford to eventually make millions from the deal and win plenty of prestige.

Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1895 on: August 24, 2020, 11:45:44 am »
Don't you find it interesting how many countries have either tied up positions in that vaccine or have agreements to produce it, including the US and China? So far we have banked everything on a couple of RNA vaccines and a failed partnership with China, with no other options.

again, your fav is but one of (now) 7 candidates in Phase 3 trials... there is nothing to suggest it will ultimately prove out. You keep nattering on about mRNA as if it's not a proven methodology approach - if you have something to validate your continued concerns over this methodology, step up and reference it - yes? Other countries have signed agreements with Chinese manufacturers - how stooopid of them, hey! You say "so far", but refuse to acknowledge the pointed statements advising Canada is in ongoing negotiations with "other manufacturers"... other than the 2 agreements already reached (for 2 of the (now) 7 candidates in Phase 3 clinical trials).

Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1896 on: August 24, 2020, 11:50:44 am »

Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1897 on: August 24, 2020, 12:10:09 pm »
To date, no RNA vaccines have been approved for human use, a Covid 19 vaccine would be the first.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/astrazeneca-stock-climbs-on-reports-trump-could-fast-track-covid-19-vaccine-11598264862

AstraZeneca say it isn't so but you have to wonder.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1898 on: August 26, 2020, 12:41:29 pm »
$2B in federal funding aims to help schools reopen safely as COVID-19 numbers climb --- Money earmarked to improve air ventilation, boost sanitation and buy protective equipment

Quote
The funding is meant to allow provinces and territories to work with local school boards to implement measures to protect students and staff from COVID-19. The money can be used to help adapt learning spaces, improve air ventilation, increase hand sanitation and hygiene and buy extra personal protective equipment (PPE) and cleaning supplies.

Trudeau also announced an extra $112 million for First Nations communities to ensure a safe return to school on reserves.

While education falls under provincial jurisdiction, Trudeau said the money is meant only to top up provincial resources and comes with no strings attached on how it's spent.



'PM Trudeau Presser: Safe Return To Class Fund'
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Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1899 on: August 26, 2020, 03:02:28 pm »
I’ve gone back to shaving regularly.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline kimmy

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1900 on: August 26, 2020, 08:21:27 pm »

The fines are a good start but I'd prefer to see the party-goers get fined too. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-public-safety-minister-set-to-clamp-down-on-covid-19-enforcement-1.5694927

I like Squid's approach too.   ;D

During the AIDS epidemic, they discovered that criminal penalties didn't actually stop AIDS people from having sex, but it did drive everything underground.

Attempts to fine people who attended some reckless gathering, while well-intentioned, would do little to actually stop people from acting recklessly, but would do a lot to disincentivize testing and blow a hole in contact-tracing efforts.  Nobody is going to go get their nose swabbed or cooperate with contract tracing if doing so is going to get them fined or worse.

Law and order types have long believed the way to fight drug use is to crack down-- more penalties! Fines for possession! Throw them in jail!  It makes perfect sense, right?  Except, all the research shows that none of that stuff actually works.  Which is why our efforts to fight drug problems have moved away from attempting to punish drug users and instead towards counter-intuitive approaches. Decriminalization, legalization, education, safe injection sites, and harm reduction strategies. Not fines and jail time for users.

While I'm not sure exactly what harm-reduction strategies for socialization during the pandemic would look like, I do believe that attempts to "get tough!" and "crack down!" are doomed to fail just as they failed in combating drug use or the spread of AIDS.  One thing I believe has been talked about is changing (at least for the time being) laws regarding public alcohol use. If people are going to socialize, it would be preferable that they do it in well ventilated and spacious outdoor areas, not a crowded and poorly ventilated home or AirBnB or some other confined space they might find available.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1901 on: August 27, 2020, 02:25:06 am »
The Chinese Commies are being bastards...  perhaps the Canadian gov't shouldn't have put their faith in the Chinese coming through on a vaccine.   

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/canada-china-covid-19-vaccine-trial-plug-pulled-1.5701101

Quote
A collaboration between a Chinese company and a Halifax research team aiming to carry out Canada's first clinical trials of a potential COVID-19 vaccine has been abandoned amid rising tensions between the two countries.

The partnership between the National Research Council of Canada and CanSino Biologics was announced by the federal government in May.

A team at the Canadian Centre for Vaccinology at Dalhousie University was supposed to work with CanSino to run the first Canadian clinical trials for a possible COVID-19 vaccine. CanSino's vaccine, called Ad5-nCoV, was already being run through human trials in China and has shown promising results.

In May, Health Canada gave the go-ahead for the Canadian trials to begin, and the hope was that clinical trials in Halifax could begin within weeks.

But in late July, The Canadian Press reported that the Canadian-Chinese partnership was on the rocks, saying China had held up shipments the company was supposed to send to the Halifax researchers by the end of May.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1902 on: August 27, 2020, 02:26:14 am »
During the AIDS epidemic, they discovered that criminal penalties didn't actually stop AIDS people from having sex, but it did drive everything underground.

Attempts to fine people who attended some reckless gathering, while well-intentioned, would do little to actually stop people from acting recklessly, but would do a lot to disincentivize testing and blow a hole in contact-tracing efforts.  Nobody is going to go get their nose swabbed or cooperate with contract tracing if doing so is going to get them fined or worse.

Law and order types have long believed the way to fight drug use is to crack down-- more penalties! Fines for possession! Throw them in jail!  It makes perfect sense, right?  Except, all the research shows that none of that stuff actually works.  Which is why our efforts to fight drug problems have moved away from attempting to punish drug users and instead towards counter-intuitive approaches. Decriminalization, legalization, education, safe injection sites, and harm reduction strategies. Not fines and jail time for users.

While I'm not sure exactly what harm-reduction strategies for socialization during the pandemic would look like, I do believe that attempts to "get tough!" and "crack down!" are doomed to fail just as they failed in combating drug use or the spread of AIDS.  One thing I believe has been talked about is changing (at least for the time being) laws regarding public alcohol use. If people are going to socialize, it would be preferable that they do it in well ventilated and spacious outdoor areas, not a crowded and poorly ventilated home or AirBnB or some other confined space they might find available.

 -k

A house party is not the same as gay sex or addiction, which is a medical condition.  Your analogies are terrible.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1903 on: August 27, 2020, 11:33:06 am »
The Chinese Commies are being bastards...  perhaps the Canadian gov't shouldn't have put their faith in the Chinese coming through on a vaccine.   

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/canada-china-covid-19-vaccine-trial-plug-pulled-1.5701101

Ya think?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #1904 on: August 27, 2020, 11:34:53 am »
During the AIDS epidemic, they discovered that criminal penalties didn't actually stop AIDS people from having sex, but it did drive everything underground.

Attempts to fine people who attended some reckless gathering, while well-intentioned, would do little to actually stop people from acting recklessly, but would do a lot to disincentivize testing and blow a hole in contact-tracing efforts.  Nobody is going to go get their nose swabbed or cooperate with contract tracing if doing so is going to get them fined or worse.

Law and order types have long believed the way to fight drug use is to crack down-- more penalties! Fines for possession! Throw them in jail!  It makes perfect sense, right?  Except, all the research shows that none of that stuff actually works.  Which is why our efforts to fight drug problems have moved away from attempting to punish drug users and instead towards counter-intuitive approaches. Decriminalization, legalization, education, safe injection sites, and harm reduction strategies. Not fines and jail time for users.

While I'm not sure exactly what harm-reduction strategies for socialization during the pandemic would look like, I do believe that attempts to "get tough!" and "crack down!" are doomed to fail just as they failed in combating drug use or the spread of AIDS.  One thing I believe has been talked about is changing (at least for the time being) laws regarding public alcohol use. If people are going to socialize, it would be preferable that they do it in well ventilated and spacious outdoor areas, not a crowded and poorly ventilated home or AirBnB or some other confined space they might find available.

 -k

You can't get infected with AIDS or become an addict simply by breathing the same air as someone who is.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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