Author Topic: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)  (Read 106315 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #990 on: April 15, 2020, 08:34:37 am »
yes, member kimmy! You've stayed out of this thread long enough to allow the multiple waldo azzWhoopin's you took to be buried... would you like the waldo to resurrect them! I'm keen to have you to extend upon your SquirrelChops and, in particular, have you elaborate further on trends and their relevance to studies presented!  ;D

Funny but no. the Shade Man is 100% right here.  He provided a real cite: The Atlantic, a well-respected, left-leaning source. For you to dismiss this as a "go-fetch link" just smacks of intellectual dishonesty.

a go-fetch link is simply one dropped without offering anything from it; typically personal comment speaking to some particular point within the link, one ideally quoted. It's exactly what member SelfIso did twice (each time simply pasting 4 links without including any personal comment or related quotation from the links... same for member Shady, who simply pasted in one of the same links SelfIso initially provided and stated "Important Read". Of course, this is the way of the lazyAzz who can't be bothered to actually read/do research/articulate points of interest/concern/relevance/etc..

Since the waldo's time is apparently too precious to waste on respectable sources like The Atlantic, the kimmo will parse key portions of it:

The Atlantic article explains that, in short, the WHO's information is only as good as the regimes that it depends on for information, and in the case of dogshit regimes like the PRC, the information coming from the WHO is pretty near worthless. For China to have told WHO in mid January that there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission is simply a bald-faced lie.  The WHO reliance on statements like that from member organizations is a structural deficiency of WHO. And for Canada to take that statement from WHO as a factual basis for the formulation of public policy is sheer idiocy.

being the blowhard you are, you wouldn't take the effort/time to understand that the WHO has WHO field personnel in China... from the earliest days. As much as you want to blindly, lock-step, parrot the false narrative, the WHO scientists aren't public policy extensions of any country, blindly relaying propaganda statements from a government. Of course, you can't bother to take the time to read my detailed response to member Shady... the detailed rebuff of his most "complex analysis" where he states nothing more than "Important Read".

I won't bother to repeat my rebuff here again... you haven't the intellectual honesty to review it properly or the wherewithal to understand it anyway!

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #991 on: April 15, 2020, 08:54:08 am »
While I am fully aware that the Republitards are doing this for narrative purposes (to make it something that "they" did to "us", to shift attention away from their own shoddy response) I don't think we should be in any rush to forget China's role in creating this disaster. 

Firstly we can thank China's prolific animal trafficking trade and the idiocy of "traditional Chinese medicine" for the fact that this virus ever came into contact with humans.

And secondly let's remember that China's early response to the outbreak was to jail people for saying that there was an outbreak. As much as we mock the Trump administration's handling of this, let's keep in mind that China's was 1000 times worse. They have a lot to answer for.

I think China should be paying reparations when this is over, especially to Italy and the other hardest-hit countries.
Ooooh, it's not just Kimmy saying this.


I've provided several prior posts that included actual timeline events of note/significance... factual based! This following prior post has a scientific perspective; one extending upon and separating itself from the overt politicization underway - scientists in the know/leading the way.

China was slammed for initial COVID-19 secrecy, but its scientists led the way in tackling the virus

Quote
The accusation that the Chinese government delayed in letting the world know about the COVID-19 outbreak has become a political weapon in countries including the US, the UK and Canada.

But China’s scientists have won international praise for hitting several key milestones in understanding the novel, fast-moving virus.

Chinese leaders were seen as slow to react to the outbreak that began in the city of Wuhan, suppressing information and even punishing those who raised the alarm.

There was an early cover up in Wuhan, perhaps a few days to a week, before the threat was accepted. We will never know if faster action in those first days could have averted the outbreak,” said Ian Jones, professor of biomedical sciences at Reading University.

Despite the initial slow reaction from the government, “There has been a very open dialogue [since] and many research findings from the Chinese experience are now appearing,” says Jones.

In January, a team led by Yong-Zhen Zhang, of the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre & School of Public Health, published the initial viral genome on two open-access sites, drawing praise for the swiftest sequencing effort ever. Later that month, Chinese doctors and scientists reported the first description of the new disease in the Lancet medical journal.

“Under immense pressure, as the epidemic exploded around them, they took time to write up their findings in a foreign language and seek publication in a medical journal thousands of miles away. Their rapid and rigorous work was an urgent warning to the world. We owe those scientists enormous thanks,” said Richard Horton, Lancet editor.

At the University of Hong Kong, researchers are developing a COVID-19 vaccine, novel screening agents, diagnostic tests and models of infection to trace the source and help prevent future occurrences.

“[We] were among the first teams in the world to produce a detailed cluster report, epidemiology report, electron microscope images and mathematical model of the potential spread of the virus,” said Zhang Xiang, president and vice-chancellor of the university. “Most Hong Kong residents still remember the experience of living through SARS in 2003, several instances of avian influenza, MERS, and now COVID-19.”

Any disagreements over how countries have managed the epidemic has not trickled down into labs, says Michael Head, a senior research fellow in global health in the University of Southampton. “Whilst there will always be the politics of mistrust, I think, broadly, we’re seeing reasonable cooperation between China and elsewhere,” he said.

“The Chinese have been leading the way in publishing open-access evidence on case management, genomics and numerous areas of public health and epidemiology, which has been vital in informing the response in more or less every country
.”

Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #992 on: April 15, 2020, 09:02:14 am »
member wilber and pile-on-posse: March 25 - under the Federal Quarantine Act, all travelers returning to Canada — with the exception of "essential workers (eg. truckers, health care workers)", will have to enter a mandatory 14 days of isolation under the Quarantine Act whether or not they have symptoms of coronavirus. As the waldo understands, if a designated Quarantine Officer believes that a traveler has refused to isolate themselves, they can ask a peace officer to arrest the traveler and bring them into quarantine.

now certainly, it is the prerogative of any province to enact mandatory isolation requirements under their own 'emergency measures act'... like B.C. did on April 10th. But yes, as the waldo understands, on April 14th, the federal government did update it's March 25th order to provide additional flexibility considerations: to give border agents the ability to assign a self-isolation order (rather than a mandatory quarantine) if a traveler can present an acceptable self-isolation plan.

as the waldo understands, following the dynamics at play, these self-isolation plan requirements are being considered in relation to an expected increase in "snowbird returnees"... those who chose to ignore the early March 'suggestion' from the federal government that they return home (which required self-isolation for 14 days); chose to instead ride out their stay to align with the allowed maximum ~6-month away period... those choosing sunnier climes over returning to self-isolation.

member wilber and pile-on posse: details matter... but yes, they do take some degree of effort to properly understand/present.

Yes waldo, the government imposed the quarantine act and then has done SFA to enforce it. It has been mere window dressing.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6786614/covid-quarantine-enforcement-cowichan-couple/
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 09:13:22 am by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #993 on: April 15, 2020, 09:07:52 am »
Waldo - you should really stand down with your aggro-Liberal take.  It turns the discussion into a zero-sum game of the dumbest kind.

The fact is that people on all sides should be adding to each others' arguments to look at what went wrong here.  The Atlantic is a respected institution as kimmy points out.  I think I found your rebuff but with all of the aggressive attack language festooned through it it's hard to read.

You have a good ability to be analytical but your power to persuade is reduced with your style, I find.

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #994 on: April 15, 2020, 09:23:16 am »
Yes waldo, the government imposed the quarantine act and then has done SFA to enforce it. It has been mere window dressing.

sure, sure - and you believe a self-isolation plan is a guarantee. In any case, your limited analysis somehow failed to tie in the significance of why these isolation plan requirements are now coming forward in the ever changing dynamics at play - you know, the anticipated "surge" of returning snowbirds that chose not to follow the early March federal directive/suggestion to return home (a return that required a 14-day self-isolation).

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #995 on: April 15, 2020, 09:32:45 am »
Waldo - you should really stand down with your aggro-Liberal take.  It turns the discussion into a zero-sum game of the dumbest kind.

The fact is that people on all sides should be adding to each others' arguments to look at what went wrong here.  The Atlantic is a respected institution as kimmy points out.  I think I found your rebuff but with all of the aggressive attack language festooned through it it's hard to read.

You have a good ability to be analytical but your power to persuade is reduced with your style, I find.

get a grip! Little of this thread has concentrated on the Canadian federal government - but nice of you to come down from your mountain and dispense!

yes, the Atlantic is a reputable legitimate source... but as I detailed in my counter, the Atlantic journalist got it wrong... the complete emphasis in that article was a single tweet that gives no allowance for the generalized, non-specific phrasing used within it. What I detailed were, in exact day-alignment with that tweet, actual notifications from the formal WHO COVID-19 timeline... notifications that counter any false interpretations being made from the single TWEET! Of course, those inclined will always blindly parrot politicized talking points intended to provide alternate attack outlets while purposely giving cover for Trump's incompetence/dithering!

guest78

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #996 on: April 15, 2020, 10:32:21 am »
Well, well, well...China knew all along, and kept it to themselves.  All of this could be been avoided..
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #997 on: April 15, 2020, 10:38:52 am »
Well, well, well...China knew all along, and kept it to themselves.  All of this could be been avoided..
(Attachment Link)
Yup. So what are we going to do about it? I know let's all rush back to work so we can sell them as much oil as we possibly can.

guest78

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #998 on: April 15, 2020, 10:40:51 am »
Yup. So what are we going to do about it? I know let's all rush back to work so we can sell them as much oil as we possibly can.
We’re going to cancel some of our debt held by China.  That’s what we’re going to do.

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #999 on: April 15, 2020, 10:43:24 am »
member Shady, your described 'Orange Man' has been attacking the WHO for praising China’s coronavirus response... while announcing he’s freezing U.S. funding for the WHO... in the time of a pandemic, freezing funding? Oh my member Shady, oh my!

wait, what? Geezaz, your described 'Orange Man' himself repeatedly praised China early on - look at those dates!:



now... CNN has put together a group video of 4 separate video extracts of Trump praising China/Xi... still waiting for it to be posted, hey member Shady! Stay tuned.

guest78

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #1000 on: April 15, 2020, 10:46:00 am »
member Shady, your described 'Orange Man' has been attacking the WHO for praising China’s coronavirus response... while announcing he’s freezing U.S. funding for the WHO... in the time of a pandemic, freezing funding? Oh my member Shady, oh my!

wait, what? Geezaz, your described 'Orange Man' himself repeatedly praised China early on - look at those dates!:



now... CNN has put together a group video of 4 separate video extracts of Trump praising China/Xi... still waiting for it to be posted, hey member Shady! Stay tuned.
Yes I know, orange man bad.   Regardless, nobody knew the extent that China and the WHO were corrupt.  How about acting on new information waldo?  Or is that difficult for you? [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Offline eyeball

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #1001 on: April 15, 2020, 11:06:00 am »
We’re going to cancel some of our debt held by China.  That’s what we’re going to do.
Is that where my compensation will come from? Because I don't want no steenkin' handout. This wasn't my fault.

And we're just going to sell them some of our oil or as much as possible?  No intention whatsoever of even attempting to spur China to change its regime or more specifically do something about it's governments sneakiness?

I could care less if Chinese people wish to live under a president for life but they do need to get their governance in far better order. I wouldn't follow the example we're setting though.  We suck at it too.
 

Offline kimmy

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #1002 on: April 15, 2020, 11:07:47 am »
yes, member kimmy! You've stayed out of this thread long enough to allow the multiple waldo azzWhoopin's you took to be buried... would you like the waldo to resurrect them! I'm keen to have you to extend upon your SquirrelChops and, in particular, have you elaborate further on trends and their relevance to studies presented!  ;D

As I mentioned elsewhere, I was pretty tied up in the days following the end of my quarantine. I didn't have time over the Easter weekend to spend online.

But don't worry, I'll get around to your posts (most of which appear to be just more restatements of your efforts to use that one data point on your graph to try to deflect attention away from China's live animal trafficking, or asking for itemized lists of data that you don't actually need.)

And if you have any particular zingers you want me to respond to, feel free to highlight them.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

guest78

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #1003 on: April 15, 2020, 11:11:39 am »
Is that where my compensation will come from? Because I don't want no steenkin' handout. This wasn't my fault.

And we're just going to sell them some of our oil or as much as possible?  No intention whatsoever of even attempting to spur China to change its regime or more specifically do something about it's governments sneakiness?

I could care less if Chinese people wish to live under a president for life but they do need to get their governance in far better order. I wouldn't follow the example we're setting though.  We suck at it too.
 
*old man yells at tree*

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #1004 on: April 15, 2020, 11:15:28 am »
FFS member Shady - learn how to size images!  ;D

Yes I know, orange man bad.   Regardless, nobody knew the extent that China and the WHO were corrupt.  How about acting on new information waldo?  Or is that difficult for you?

you've not shown anything to support your continued statements labeling the WHO as corrupt! As for "new information", did you actually read your linked article that emphasizes a delay between January 14-January 20? Here, again, let the waldo repeat (for the nthteentime) the following:

the mid-January notifications from the WHO... that I'm aware of:

Quote
14 January 2020 --- WHO's technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens. 

22 January 2020 --- WHO mission to China issued a statement saying that there was evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan but more investigation was needed to understand the full extent of transmission.

it's all about evidence! What actual evidence, scientific evidence, exists to legitimately, with authority, make pronouncements about human-to-human transmission... with resultant/expected actions therein? As I put forward, the following was the first formal substantive scientific paper (published January 29) that had the evidence for said human-to-human transmission... I expect earlier recognition of this (prior to the formal publish date of Jan 29) is what prompted the WHO to issue its January 22nd notification:

Here, in regards human-to-human transmission and evidence therein, this paper reference as originally published January 29 (in the New England Journal of Medicine) - as I'm aware, the first substantive, comprehensive study analyzing the first 425 laboratory confirmed cases of persons (from Wuhan) known to have contracted COVID-19:



like I said, I bring receipts. So... this formal published study (Early Transmission Dynamics in Wuhan, China, of Novel Coronavirus–Infected Pneumonia), appears on January 29 - confirmation of, with evidence, human-to-human transmission.