Author Topic: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)  (Read 34007 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #825 on: April 09, 2020, 07:24:36 pm »
Ultimately, I don't think suing any of the covidiot government accomplishes anything.
You're probably right but I also think if we don't carefully examine political and official covidiocy and the role it played in spreading this disease farther and faster our only accomplishment will have been to pave the way for the next pandemic virus to use.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #826 on: April 09, 2020, 07:34:46 pm »

fabrication and hyperbole - your standard fare! You categorize my factual statements as "praise for China"... how weak is your "argument" when you have to resort to such lame-assed plays. I identified the formal notification to WHO and the genome sequencing share - facts that you're clearly uncomfortable with. Your statement, "If China did, as I say, contact the WHO is gold, real gold!  ;D Again, how Trumpian of you!

for as much as you bluster and make shyte up, I will emphasize you chose to ignore my request of you; the one where I ask you to identify your implied missing China obligations to the international community . Of course, in response to me providing you 2 key example deliverables to the international community, you can't manage to answer my request. Instead you go allOutKimmy and beak-off about Huawei phones and calling me John McCallum - twice... on top of previously stating, repeatedly, I'm scumbag lawyering!

yes, clearly... you've lost it - mission accomplished says the waldo!  ;D

China's efforts to cover up the SARS outbreak even after Dec 31 when it was clear they knew what they had on their hands are unforgivable.

Wuhan is a city of apparently 11 million, it's an international business hub, it's a tourist destination for Yangtze River cruises apparently. Countless people would have come and gone from Wuhan during December.

If you don't recognize that their efforts to cover up the virus outbreak during that time are betrayal of their responsibility to not just their own citizens but to the rest of the world as well, then you need a kind of help I just can't give you.

As for John McCallum... if you don't like being compared to John McCallum, stop acting like John McCallum.

As for scumbag lawyering... if you don't like the accusation of scumbag lawyering, then stop lawyering for scumbags.  I'm completely baffled by your determination to make excuses for Chinese animal traffickers and "traditional Chinese medicine" practitioners.


 -k
Masked for your safety.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #827 on: April 09, 2020, 07:36:32 pm »
I really donít think Graham understands the concept that flattening the curve to not overwhelm the medical system is the goal, even if a vaccine comes sooner than later (which it wonít). 

If an extra 50,000 (number is just an example) people are saved prior to a vaccine becoming available because of all the measures, then how could the measures have been in vain?   

And he wonders why he was labeled a #covidiot?

#squidiot  :D :D :D
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #828 on: April 09, 2020, 07:37:07 pm »
Navarro isn't a Fox idiot, he's a Trump administration idiot.

 -k

What did he say about our dear leader?
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Omni

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #829 on: April 09, 2020, 07:42:01 pm »
#squidiot  :D :D :D

That all ya got? I guess squid wins...again. ;D ;D ;D

Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #830 on: April 09, 2020, 07:42:52 pm »
What did he say about our dear leader?


He said there is a special place in hell for Trudeau.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #831 on: April 09, 2020, 07:45:54 pm »
What did he say about our dear leader?

Are you starting to comprehend what Wilber posted?  That if we donít ďflatten the curveĒ with these isolation measures that the cases will overwhelm the system and make things worse?

Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #832 on: April 09, 2020, 07:55:11 pm »
So was imposing the Quarantine Act just for show, because the feds don't seem keen on enforcing it?
https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news/cowichan-couple-wont-self-isolate-after-returning-from-overseas/

What say you squid, this your part of the world.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #833 on: April 09, 2020, 08:22:41 pm »
So was imposing the Quarantine Act just for show, because the feds don't seem keen on enforcing it?
https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news/cowichan-couple-wont-self-isolate-after-returning-from-overseas/

What say you squid, this your part of the world.

Teargas and tasers if they donít comply is what I say....   

FYI - the feds do not have a direct line of control over the RCMP.  If local RCMP chooses not to enforce something, blame their leadership, lack of resources, or whatever is causing the lack of reaction.   Trudeau canít hold every officerís hand and direct them how to enforce the law.

Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #834 on: April 09, 2020, 08:59:31 pm »
Teargas and tasers if they donít comply is what I say....   

FYI - the feds do not have a direct line of control over the RCMP.  If local RCMP chooses not to enforce something, blame their leadership, lack of resources, or whatever is causing the lack of reaction.   Trudeau canít hold every officerís hand and direct them how to enforce the law.

Bullshit, the RCMP is a federal police force. The Quarantine Act or any other federal law means sweet FA if a government can't get a federal agency to enforce it.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #835 on: April 09, 2020, 11:20:52 pm »
You're probably right but I also think if we don't carefully examine political and official covidiocy and the role it played in spreading this disease farther and faster our only accomplishment will have been to pave the way for the next pandemic virus to use.

They were covidiots before really understanding what was happening, but they were stunningly brutal in their efforts to contain the virus once accepting the reality.  They f-ing welded people in their homes to die.

If I thought anything we bring on China would help them get rid of wet markets or next time not be covidiots in the name of 'economy', then I'd say bring it.

But it won't make a difference in the least and it might even set us up if the next pandemic starts in Alberta.  Or Quebec, depending on your poison.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #836 on: April 09, 2020, 11:27:55 pm »
So was imposing the Quarantine Act just for show, because the feds don't seem keen on enforcing it?
https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news/cowichan-couple-wont-self-isolate-after-returning-from-overseas/

What say you squid, this your part of the world.

They should offer Nanaimo a commission:

Quote
Failure to comply with this order is an offense under the Quarantine Act. Maximum penalties include a fine of up to $750,000 and/or imprisonment for six months

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #837 on: April 10, 2020, 12:43:04 am »
now, as to the exact origin of the virus, as I understand that has not been determined and most likely never will be. What has been determined through analysis of the public genome sequence data is that the evolution of the virus has been determined to have originated through natural processes - natural evolution; i.e., "not made in a laboratory or otherwise engineered". To this point, related studies have pointed to the origination as either:

=> the virus evolved to its current pathogenic state through natural selection in a non-human host and then jumped to humans. Given similarity to bat coronavirus, research has proposed bats as the most likely reservoir for COVID-19; however, as there are no documented cases of direct bat-human transmission, an intermediate host is believed to be involved between bats and humans
OR
=> a non-pathogenic version of the virus jumped from an animal host into humans and then evolved to its current pathogenic state within the human population. In this circumstance, a coronavirus in armadillo-like mammals found in Asia and Africa has a similarity to the COVID-19 virus... in this case either directly from "an anteater type mammal directly to a human, or through intermediaries like civets or ferrets to a human.
from your own linked article: "Prof Andrew Cunningham of Zoological Society of London (ZSL) said it was important not to jump to conclusions from the paper. "The source of the detected coronavirus really is unknown - it might have been a natural pangolin virus or have jumped from another species between capture and death.""

and most certainly, there is no scientific based consensus that the virus originated at a Wuhan so-called 'wet market'; in particular, study analysis shows that some of the first known patients had no direct exposure to the/a wet market. Most pointedly, study analysis shows that about a third of the first 41 confirmed infected patients had no direct exposure to the/a wet market... among them the first known patients where, in addition, "no epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases":

Counterproposal: you find an expert willing to state with any confidence that the outbreak isn't related to the Wuhan seafood market.  I doubt that even the source of your sciency-looking graph is making such a claim.

And once your graph does reach numbers where a trend becomes apparent, what becomes apparent is that the majority can be traced to that market.

oh my, you're such a heavyweight! I've re-quoted a few pertinent posts of mine above; ones that definitely show I've NOT taken a position in regards the market origination/correlation or lack thereof... rather, I've emphasized the lack of scientific consensus on the origin point. You on the other hand have stated factual certainty in regards the Wuhan market (and wild animal trafficking) as the origin point... and I've called you on it. Once again, you scored a member kimmy own-goal - you know, where I pointed out your linked article provided an expert statement advising against drawing conclusions... that the source is (and remains) unknown. Somehow, you skipped right over that lil' gem, hey!

I note you shifting goal-posts: you're now stating "related to" and you've dropped your emphasis on wild-animal trafficking! Is that cause you found something that aligned with the waldo's mentioning that, "it's just as likely the intermediary animal was a domestic one brought into the market for sale... one that might have been bit by a bat (the bat being the developing consensus as to the most likely source animal) - the key point, as I stated, no known circumstance of a direct bat-to-human virus exchange has ever been shown to have occurred; hence, the likely transference via an intermediary animal between bat and human.

as for showing more of your SquirrelChops, the study you're wigged out over, isn't relying upon your clueless reference to 'basic trend analysis' - if you could fathom it, the study leverages field related tests for statistical analysis and determining statistical significance... for conditions that emphasize quartile determinations, standard deviation, p values from chi-square tests, etc... but with an overall aim to describe (ICU versus non-ICU) epidemiological, clinical, laboratory, and radiological characteristics, treatment, and outcomes of the study's (n=41) patients; those earliest identified patients confirmed to have the COVID-19 infection. But yes, as I mentioned, the study does include the finding, as graphed, of those 41 patients (including "patient zero") with exposure versus without exposure to the Wuhan market... and you keep referring to the study graph as "your/my graph"... when you're not labeling it "sciency-looking"!  ;D

since you beaked off about data points and trend (which has no bearing/relevance to the study), within regression analysis the typical accepted number of data points to determine a statistically significant trend is 30... again, the referenced study has n=41. I suggest you just go silent here - you've embarrassed yourself enough - yes?

as for idiotic counterproposal challenge: you find an expert willing to state with certainty that the outbreak origin point was a trafficked wild-animal that transferred the virus to a human within the Wuhan seafood market... meanwhile, I'll continue as I have to-date, suggesting there is no scientific consensus on the origin point/source of the virus.

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #838 on: April 10, 2020, 12:56:25 am »
I think we're **** until we all get vaccinated.
It would be funny if they can't develop a vaccine and 70% of us inevitable will get it no matter what so all of this shutdown was in vain.

which may be more difficult than typical efforts/timelines; albeit still in prelim release, a study is out that has provided the first systematic examination of antibody levels in patients who had recovered from Covid-19... the initial aim of the study was to attempt to determine whether some recovered COVID-19 patients have a higher risk of reinfection after finding surprisingly low levels of Covid-19 antibodies in a number of people discharged from hospital. Of 175 patients reviewed, nearly a third had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies - and in some cases, antibodies could not be detected at all.

study authors state the low-level of antibodies might be too low to provide natural immunity to a potential future encounter with the virus... with broader implications toward possibly impacting upon herd immunity - that resistance to the disease among the general population to stop its spread. It is speculated that those patients exhibiting low-level/no antibodies but might have beaten back COVID-19 with other parts of the immune system such as T-cells or cytokines. In any case, if the real virus could not induce antibody response in a third of the patients reviewed, the weakened version in a vaccine might not work in these patients either.

Once again, Graham is correct in his forecasting, as confirmed by PM Trudeau today:

Trudeau emphasized the need for Canadians to remain vigilant, staying home and frequently washing their hands in order to avoid the models' more grim projections.

"This will be the new normal until a vaccine is developed," he said.

"It will take months of continued, determined effort."

it is being said COVID-19 is exhibiting characteristics unique to itself; as I mentioned in the above re-quote, one of those appears to be, per an initial study, the presence (or not) and levels of antibodies observed in recovered patients... with possible implications to the overall efficacy of a developed vaccine.

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #839 on: April 10, 2020, 01:47:05 am »
fabrication and hyperbole - your standard fare! You categorize my factual statements as "praise for China"... how weak is your "argument" when you have to resort to such lame-assed plays. I identified the formal notification to WHO and the genome sequencing share - facts that you're clearly uncomfortable with. Your statement, "If China did, as I say, contact the WHO is gold, real gold!  ;D Again, how Trumpian of you!

for as much as you bluster and make shyte up, I will emphasize you chose to ignore my request of you; the one where I ask you to identify your implied missing China obligations to the international community . Of course, in response to me providing you 2 key example deliverables to the international community, you can't manage to answer my request. Instead you go allOutKimmy and beak-off about Huawei phones and calling me John McCallum - twice... on top of previously stating, repeatedly, I'm scumbag lawyering!

yes, clearly... you've lost it - mission accomplished says the waldo!  ;D

China's efforts to cover up the SARS outbreak even after Dec 31 when it was clear they knew what they had on their hands are unforgivable.

Wuhan is a city of apparently 11 million, it's an international business hub, it's a tourist destination for Yangtze River cruises apparently. Countless people would have come and gone from Wuhan during December.

If you don't recognize that their efforts to cover up the virus outbreak during that time are betrayal of their responsibility to not just their own citizens but to the rest of the world as well, then you need a kind of help I just can't give you.

the waldo suggests member kimmy exercise caution in blindly accepting ALL statements critical of China - given the voracious appetite Trumpites have in deflecting Trump failures/incompetence toward China... in influencing the narrative cast by compliant media towards China failures (instead of Trump failures), thinking persons should be very diligent in source selection. As an example re-quoted above, I've already challenged you (several times with re-posts) to present a reputable sourced timeline that draws distinction between what China did (or didn't do) in terms of domestic versus international obligations... where I, in particular ask you to relate your implied missing international obligations.

for reference: China locked down the city of Wuhan (11 million people) on January 23rd... the same day other cities within the province of Hubei were also locked down (impacting upon a total population of 57 million people).

one of Trump's latest go-to azz-coverings is to repeatedly state he was first to impose a travel ban from China. Point in fact, Italy imposed a ban on flights from China on 31 January... the U.S. followed 4 days later; most pointedly, Italy enacted a full ban, while the U.S. policy was only a restriction, with wide exemptions. Just yesterday scientists have advised the source origin of the virus impacting upon the U.S. northeast coastal states was from Europe, not China.

As for John McCallum... if you don't like being compared to John McCallum, stop acting like John McCallum.

As for scumbag lawyering... if you don't like the accusation of scumbag lawyering, then stop lawyering for scumbags.  I'm completely baffled by your determination to make excuses for Chinese animal traffickers and "traditional Chinese medicine" practitioners.

I have no like... or dislike for either. I'm quite content to emphasize your repeated usage of the tags... particularly as you think them pertinent!  ;D I expect by your nattering repeat references to Huawei, you're so troubled by McCallum's foot-in-mouth (non-diplomatic) comments about the U.S. extradition request against Meng Wanzhou... I personally think he was right in his statements concerning her case to fight extradition. Not for this thread, but if you feel emboldened, McCallum's arguments to fight the extradition are public knowledge... make sure you take those on, hey! And also make sure you speak to the UK decision to align with Huawei's 5G - I mean, clearly you're troubled with the company!  ;D

as for your repeated want to label me as 'scumbag lawyering', I've not said word one... NOT WORD ONE... in favour of, as you say, "Chinese animal traffickers and traditional Chinese medicine practitioners". Clearly your peanutBrain infers my challenge to your unsubstantiated certainty that the origin point/source is the Wuhan market, is me advocating! Get a grip, member kimmy - get a grip!