Author Topic: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)  (Read 106396 times)

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #750 on: April 05, 2020, 06:52:08 pm »
Trump first plied his magic elixir back in mid-March... and was soundly criticized by medical experts/media for the lack of substantive data/research/results to support the claim he was parroting. But now Trump is further emboldened to, once again, tout the "wonders" of Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine as COVID-19 treatment drugs!

of course Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine are long-standing legitimate drugs used for treatment of malaria and certain inflammatory conditions... since Trump's snake-oil show it has been increasingly difficult for persons with lupus, with rheumatoid arthritis, etc., to fill their prescriptions given the idiocy of Trump worshipers capturing the market of available Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine

imagine the Annals of Internal Medicine printing something to counter carnivalBarkerTrump!

Use of Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine During the COVID-19 Pandemic: What Every Clinician Should Know


Is there any doubt that he's invested in those companies and/or getting kickbacks?

Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #751 on: April 05, 2020, 06:54:54 pm »
The ticker didn't specify what country or the original source but as it was on Global, I assumed it was Canada. I sure hope it was just the US.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #752 on: April 05, 2020, 07:09:42 pm »
The ticker didn't specify what country or the original source but as it was on Global, I assumed it was Canada. I sure hope it was just the US.

the waldo... member wilber's gopher!  ;D


Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #753 on: April 05, 2020, 07:14:40 pm »
uhhh..... buckle-up!

A tiger at the Bronx Zoo tested positive for COVID-19 after coming into contact with an asymptomatic caretaker --- USDA Statement on the Confirmation of COVID-19 in a Tiger in New York


Offline kimmy

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #754 on: April 06, 2020, 11:28:56 am »
No, I know the lockdown won't be forever.  The life as we know it I was talking about was society. 

What if it takes many years (if not a decade or so) to recover economically? 

What if mutations make a vaccine impossible and it becomes an endemic? 

What if we never really go back to the days when of flying without a mask or going to a busy outdoor concert?

I was really down the day I wrote that post.  I don't always feel like that, but on my bad days I worry the effects will be much worse than we're willing to consider right now.

The economic after-effects of this are going to persist for years, long after the medical emergency is over.

Economically, this is going to be the worse thing we have seen in our lifetimes. Whole industries are shut down and will continue to be shut down for some time. The ripple effect of that will be felt by the rest of the economy.  There will be immense uncertainty, immense loss of consumer confidence, a huge decline in spending, and rampant unemployment.  Communities like Whistler and Jasper and Banff that rely heavily on tourism are going to be especially crushed by this, because the tourism industry as a whole is going to be completely **** for years to come. (I'm grateful that I got to see Las Vegas in January, because it's not going to be the same for a long time, if ever.)

Our government, god bless them, has taken aggressive action to try to dampen that ripple effect, but government can only do so much. They they can't support the whole economy indefinitely. We can hope that the strong government economic action will keep this from spiraling out of control, but the effects are still going to be really, really bad in spite of their best efforts.

We're going to see huge numbers of bankruptcies and loan defaults and mortgage defaults. People who were strong credit risks when they received their mortgages or loans are going to be financially ruined. The banks themselves will be financially imperiled as a result.  This is going to be like a replay of the 2008 financial crisis, but on a much larger scale.

And what's especially worrying is that even if we as a country do everything right, our bungling neighbors to the south are going to be hit very hard by this, and since our economy is so interconnected with theirs, their economic woes are going to haunt us as well.

So many people are going to be ruined by this.  It's going to be heartbreaking.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
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Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #755 on: April 06, 2020, 11:46:09 am »

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #756 on: April 06, 2020, 11:56:27 am »
Americans are stopping medical supplies at the border...

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5523011

Quote
In a statement, Ford said that "delays in global shipments and recent restrictions at the U.S. border" have put a severe strain on the province's inventory.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #757 on: April 06, 2020, 12:02:53 pm »
citation request

One doesn't need to google very hard to find scientific articles regarding the link between China's rampant animal trafficking trade and the spread of this virus to humans.  Here's a recent one:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52048195

Pangolins are the world's most trafficked animal, for two reasons: Rich **** consider pangolin meat a luxury, and superstitious **** think pangolin scales have magic powers. 

Many medical experts are now pointing their fingers at China's animal trafficking and live markets as an ongoing threat to human health.


no - on December 31 of last year, China alerted the World Health Organization of an outbreak of a novel strain of coronavirus (initially called SARS-CoV-2) - one causing sever illness. As I understand, it took China from 'mid-December' to that Dec 31 alert point to ascertain just what they were dealing with... as I read, shortly after the WHO was alerted, Chinese scientists sequenced the genome of SARS-CoV-2 and made the data available to researchers worldwide. I understand the believed first occurrence in a human has been traced back to Dec 8th... with the number of confirmed cases on Dec 31 pegged at 266. But yes, how China handled public dissemination of the early circumstances and responses (or lack thereof), within China, can be (and has been) scrutinized; however, member kimmy, let's read your account of how China, the nation, should be held accountable for information provided(or not) to other countries and the responses those countries took (or didn't take) - notwithstanding the respective preparedness of countries to any pandemic event.

How do you propose to separate China's failure to take action to contain the outbreak at home to their obligations to the international community?   Their actions in the early stages-- jailing doctors, suppressing information, arresting people for talking about it-- contributed to its spread in the early stages, including its spread beyond China's borders.


now, as to the exact origin of the virus, as I understand that has not been determined and most likely never will be. What has been determined through analysis of the public genome sequence data is that the evolution of the virus has been determined to have originated through natural processes - natural evolution; i.e., "not made in a laboratory or otherwise engineered". To this point, related studies have pointed to the origination as either:

=> the virus evolved to its current pathogenic state through natural selection in a non-human host and then jumped to humans. Given similarity to bat coronavirus, research has proposed bats as the most likely reservoir for COVID-19; however, as there are no documented cases of direct bat-human transmission, an intermediate host is believed to be involved between bats and humans.

OR

=> a non-pathogenic version of the virus jumped from an animal host into humans and then evolved to its current pathogenic state within the human population. In this circumstance, a coronavirus in armadillo-like mammals found in Asia and Africa has a similarity to the COVID-19 virus... in this case either directly from "an anteater type mammal directly to a human, or through intermediaries like civets or ferrets to a human.

Yes, this outbreak evolved in wild animals, animals trafficked in huge numbers and smuggled in confined spaces, to maximize the chance of sharing virus among each other, then brought into contact with large numbers of humans at these live animal markets.  If you wanted to create conditions to make it likely for viruses to transfer from host animals to humans, how could you do better?

This isn't the first time Chinese wild animal trafficking has brought an infectious outbreak upon the world, as the SARS epidemic was conclusively linked to civets in China's markets as well.  That didn't make people smarten up.  This one probably won't either.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #758 on: April 06, 2020, 12:07:57 pm »
Americans are stopping medical supplies at the border...

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5523011


We should have a crown corporation for vital medical supplies. It's vital, it's an issue of national security, we clearly can't trust foreign countries anymore. Medical supplies, medical equipment, whatever it takes. Make it the supplier of preference for all Canadian hospitals to help make sure there's a sufficient volume of sales.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
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Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #759 on: April 06, 2020, 12:35:27 pm »

We should have a crown corporation for vital medical supplies. It's vital, it's an issue of national security, we clearly can't trust foreign countries anymore. Medical supplies, medical equipment, whatever it takes. Make it the supplier of preference for all Canadian hospitals to help make sure there's a sufficient volume of sales.

 -k

We have become far too dependent on the US in particular. Wife went to renew a prescription today and could only get one month instead of the usual three. Pharmacies are worried about supply as so much of this stuff comes from the US. The manufacturer is a Danish company but it comes from their US operations.

Just another pitfall of basing your economy on resources and services at the expense of actually producing stuff.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2020, 12:37:11 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #760 on: April 06, 2020, 01:07:40 pm »
Firstly we can thank China's prolific animal trafficking trade and the idiocy of "traditional Chinese medicine" for the fact that this virus ever came into contact with humans.

so very definitive; hence the waldo's citation request... surely... member kimmy won't vacillate on her certainty - factual certainty, no less! Let's see now:

One doesn't need to google very hard to find scientific articles regarding the link between China's rampant animal trafficking trade and the spread of this virus to humans.  Here's a recent one: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52048195

from your own linked article: "Prof Andrew Cunningham of Zoological Society of London (ZSL) said it was important not to jump to conclusions from the paper. "The source of the detected coronavirus really is unknown - it might have been a natural pangolin virus or have jumped from another species between capture and death.""

at this point your linked article's paper reference is one that has not yet been published - to allow it to enter into the peer-response cycle; a pre-release unedited manuscript has been offered by the Journal Nature. That being said, the paper/lead author state: "This outbreak has been tentatively associated with a seafood market in Wuhan, China, where the sale of wild animals may be the source of zoonotic infection2. Although bats are likely reservoir hosts for SARS-CoV-2, the identity of any intermediate host that might have facilitated transfer to humans is unknown."

member kimmy, so... definitive to support your, uhhh... factual certainty!  ;D

as the waldo stated:
no - on December 31 of last year, China alerted the World Health Organization of an outbreak of a novel strain of coronavirus (initially called SARS-CoV-2) - one causing sever illness. As I understand, it took China from 'mid-December' to that Dec 31 alert point to ascertain just what they were dealing with... as I read, shortly after the WHO was alerted, Chinese scientists sequenced the genome of SARS-CoV-2 and made the data available to researchers worldwide. I understand the believed first occurrence in a human has been traced back to Dec 8th... with the number of confirmed cases on Dec 31 pegged at 266. But yes, how China handled public dissemination of the early circumstances and responses (or lack thereof), within China, can be (and has been) scrutinized; however, member kimmy, let's read your account of how China, the nation, should be held accountable for information provided(or not) to other countries and the responses those countries took (or didn't take) - notwithstanding the respective preparedness of countries to any pandemic event.

now, as to the exact origin of the virus, as I understand that has not been determined and most likely never will be. What has been determined through analysis of the public genome sequence data is that the evolution of the virus has been determined to have originated through natural processes - natural evolution; i.e., "not made in a laboratory or otherwise engineered". To this point, related studies have pointed to the origination as either:

=> the virus evolved to its current pathogenic state through natural selection in a non-human host and then jumped to humans. Given similarity to bat coronavirus, research has proposed bats as the most likely reservoir for COVID-19; however, as there are no documented cases of direct bat-human transmission, an intermediate host is believed to be involved between bats and humans.

OR

=> a non-pathogenic version of the virus jumped from an animal host into humans and then evolved to its current pathogenic state within the human population. In this circumstance, a coronavirus in armadillo-like mammals found in Asia and Africa has a similarity to the COVID-19 virus... in this case either directly from "an anteater type mammal directly to a human, or through intermediaries like civets or ferrets to a human.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #761 on: April 06, 2020, 03:13:50 pm »
Boris Johnson now in ICU. I hope he recovers and the experience teaches him some humility.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #762 on: April 06, 2020, 03:30:30 pm »
Boris Johnson now in ICU. I hope he recovers and the experience teaches him some humility.

I am very sad today for him and for all of those we are losing and have lost.  I am uncharacteristically emotional these days...

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #763 on: April 06, 2020, 03:57:24 pm »
no - on December 31 of last year, China alerted the World Health Organization of an outbreak of a novel strain of coronavirus (initially called SARS-CoV-2) - one causing sever illness. As I understand, it took China from 'mid-December' to that Dec 31 alert point to ascertain just what they were dealing with... as I read, shortly after the WHO was alerted, Chinese scientists sequenced the genome of SARS-CoV-2 and made the data available to researchers worldwide. I understand the believed first occurrence in a human has been traced back to Dec 8th... with the number of confirmed cases on Dec 31 pegged at 266. But yes, how China handled public dissemination of the early circumstances and responses (or lack thereof), within China, can be (and has been) scrutinized; however, member kimmy, let's read your account of how China, the nation, should be held accountable for information provided(or not) to other countries and the responses those countries took (or didn't take) - notwithstanding the respective preparedness of countries to any pandemic event.

How do you propose to separate China's failure to take action to contain the outbreak at home to their obligations to the international community?   Their actions in the early stages-- jailing doctors, suppressing information, arresting people for talking about it-- contributed to its spread in the early stages, including its spread beyond China's borders.

to separate... in your zeal to target China and in your clear parroting of Trumpist rhetoric so feverishly hellbent to deflect from the utter incompetence of Trump are you able to separate fact from wanton gibberish? Before bothering to give credence to your question, perhaps you could:
- identify said failure in actioning containment and provide metrics to support that failure, internally and beyond Chinese borders
- identify your implied missing China obligations to the international community, particularly in light of China's early notification to WHO and its sharing of the sequenced genome of SARS-CoV-2 with worldwide researchers
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #764 on: April 06, 2020, 10:33:55 pm »
I was really down the day I wrote that post.  I don't always feel like that, but on my bad days I worry the effects will be much worse than we're willing to consider right now.
I think the best thing we all have going for us is that we're all in the same boat at the same time.  I'm pretty sure it would be worse for me if I was on my own. No pun intended.