Author Topic: Outbreak Culture  (Read 4008 times)

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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #585 on: March 26, 2020, 06:51:13 pm »
In theory, we could learn a lot.   Just like in 1918, where up to 100 million people may have died, we should have learned a lot too. 

The lessons from this are going to mean some serious revamping of our entire system.  It will mean more stockpiling of equipment, which costs money.   It will mean less reliance on the ogre to the south of us, which means more money from govít to private industry to make that happen.  And probably an increase in costs to consumers.   To avoid the stupidity of suddenly having to hand out cheques to millions of people, it will probably mean a Universal Basic Income.  If we had that, in a case like this, govít would just increase the size of the cheque, instead of having to reinvent the wheel.

People will definitely use this as evidence for universal basic income.  I think it's a bit nuts to change our entire social welfare structure because of a once-in-a-lifetime event.  It's not hard at all to right now give every unemployed worker $2000 a month if you don't bother checking their applications for accuracy.  The applications for universal basic income top-ups wouldn't be much less right now when a million are laid off at once.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #586 on: March 26, 2020, 06:59:26 pm »
Waldo the USA has the 3rd largest population in the world that does more global business than anyone plus a big population of Chinese and Italian diaspora.  No sh!t they're gonna have a lot of cases.  New York State has around half the country's cases, gee I wonder why.  It's not because they're stupid.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline John Mark Taylor

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #587 on: March 26, 2020, 07:18:10 pm »
Waldo the USA has the 3rd largest population in the world that does more global business than anyone plus a big population of Chinese and Italian diaspora.  No sh!t they're gonna have a lot of cases.  New York State has around half the country's cases, gee I wonder why.  It's not because they're stupid.

China has the world's largest population.  The US has passed them.....consider that for a second.

Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #588 on: March 26, 2020, 07:21:07 pm »
New York State has around half the country's cases, gee I wonder why.  It's not because they're stupid.

don't wonder... let the waldo learn ya! It's called testing; the most recent number I've seen has NY state test numbers @ ~125,000. Washington State has tested less than ~35,000... California less than 25,000 (although I interpret there are some ~50,000 test results pending... as California has ramped up its testing).

aside from the OrangeMan's idiocy, incompetence and dithering, there are key influences that cost the U.S. 2 months of lead-up testing time/results that would have significantly impacted upon U.S. pandemic preparedness:

COVID-19 Is Not a Black Swan. Trump Is the Black Swan --- The problem isn't that America couldn't plan for a pandemic. It's that we couldn't plan for a president so incompetent that he failed to follow the most basic protocols for fighting a pandemic. 

Quote
When it comes to managing an outbreak, testing is the foundation on which everything else rests.

And the ability to test widely and quickly is of maximum importance at the beginning, before the outbreak reaches critical mass.

The U.S. seems to be finally catching up to the rest of the world in terms of testing capability as a matter of raw numbers, but in terms of total testing capacity relative to the populace, weíre still far below where we need to be.

And that 12 week period between the revelation of outbreak in Wuhan and the arrival of COVID-19 in America is time we cannot get back.

Please understand that this lag period is the defining mistake in what is happening right now in America. Everything would be differentóeverythingóif the government had rushed production of effective testing that could be processed on-site.

And please understand that what Iím talking about isnít a moonshot. Itís the basic blocking and tackling of epidemiology.

Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #589 on: March 26, 2020, 08:33:13 pm »
China has the world's largest population.  The US has passed them.....consider that for a second.

I guess having a totalitarian government has its perks.

You're assuming the numbers China is providing are truthful, and that they have the means in their third-world healthcare system to test people en masse as well as the richest country in human history.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.
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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #590 on: March 26, 2020, 08:35:23 pm »
People are also amazed how Russia has so few cases.  Not so amazing if that government has been lying about the numbers.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.
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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #591 on: March 26, 2020, 08:41:13 pm »
COVID-19 Is Not a Black Swan. Trump Is the Black Swan --- The problem isn't that America couldn't plan for a pandemic. It's that we couldn't plan for a president so incompetent that he failed to follow the most basic protocols for fighting a pandemic. 

WTF is thebulwark.com LOL.  Scraping the bottom of the barrel for that one wally! LOL.

I'm not saying Trump hasn't screwed up the US response, I've been criticizing both he and the Trudeau gov's response.  I'm saying there's many other factors.  Trump also doesn't control whether states decide to test or not, though he can put some pressure on them to do so, which it looks like he totally whiffed on.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline wilber

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #592 on: March 26, 2020, 09:03:30 pm »
WTF is thebulwark.com LOL.  Scraping the bottom of the barrel for that one wally! LOL.

I'm not saying Trump hasn't screwed up the US response, I've been criticizing both he and the Trudeau gov's response.  I'm saying there's many other factors.  Trump also doesn't control whether states decide to test or not, though he can put some pressure on them to do so, which it looks like he totally whiffed on.
Trump is still a screw up. Look at his press conferences. Trump blabbing away about social distancing while his flunkies stand behind him shoulder to shoulder and Mnuchin sneezes into his hand. What a bunch of effing idiots.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline waldo

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #593 on: March 26, 2020, 09:27:39 pm »
WTF is thebulwark.com LOL.  Scraping the bottom of the barrel for that one wally! LOL.

uhhh... it's actually a conservative leaning website that formed after the demise of the Weekly Standard. It certainly isn't Trump supporting given its principal commentators are openly and adamantly right-wing 'never-Trumpers' - but it has a developing and respected conservative aligned following. It's a shame you couldn't actually address the linked article itself!  ;D

I'm not saying Trump hasn't screwed up the US response, I've been criticizing both he and the Trudeau gov's response.  I'm saying there's many other factors.  Trump also doesn't control whether states decide to test or not, though he can put some pressure on them to do so, which it looks like he totally whiffed on.

pandemic response must be coordinated and driven by federal/national oversight - requiring key visible leadership that the public/media has confidence in. Notwithstanding the current mish-mash of differing and uncoordinated U.S. State level responses, State borders aren't a pandemic barrier - ya think!

you speak of "many other factors" but... somehow... can't manage to identify them, let alone even speak to their (in your mind) presumptive influences. Don't, as you say, scrape the bottom of your personal unsubstantiated barrel, step-up and go beyond yet another of your drive-by's! Sure you can...

Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #594 on: March 27, 2020, 12:11:08 am »
Trump is still a screw up. Look at his press conferences. Trump blabbing away about social distancing while his flunkies stand behind him shoulder to shoulder and Mnuchin sneezes into his hand. What a bunch of effing idiots.

Trump is probably the most ignorant person of modern times.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.
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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #595 on: March 27, 2020, 12:16:34 am »
Trump has a few good men morons helping him trying to kill Americans:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/dan-patrick-coronavirus-grandparents
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline MH

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #596 on: March 27, 2020, 06:17:30 am »
This crisis seems to be helping Trump's approval rating, incredibly.

As such, a rethink of democracy is in order.  The original design has been compromised.

Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #597 on: March 27, 2020, 08:52:26 am »
This crisis seems to be helping Trump's approval rating, incredibly.

As such, a rethink of democracy is in order.  The original design has been compromised.

People rally around the POTUS during emergencies.  Dubya's approval rating skyrocketed after 9/11.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #598 on: March 27, 2020, 01:59:04 pm »
The USofA has a perfectly good pandemic response plan laid out by their National Security Council that gives explicit instructions and timelines to fight a pandemic. 

Trump has ignored all of it.

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285


Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Outbreak Culture
« Reply #599 on: March 27, 2020, 02:08:37 pm »
John Kerry is currently my favorite US politician bahaha.

https://twitter.com/JohnKerry/status/1243552337429438464
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.