Author Topic: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)  (Read 32834 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2865 on: February 04, 2021, 08:16:13 pm »
Technically true, but the act is very narrow. Provinces must lack the capacity to respond, or must have exhausted their capacity. It's also been pointed out by some constitutional experts that that meaningful consent, owing the court definitions, means that all issues that the provinces raise must be addressed. Trying to impose your will on provincial jurisdiction without their cooperation would be nearly impossible due to the structure of the Constitution.

How do I know this? Because I made the same arguments that you're making for using the Emergencies Act.

I知 not convinced they would have needed to institute thee Emergencies Act, and I知 not convinced they couldn稚 do that if they wanted either.

Offline eyeball

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2866 on: February 04, 2021, 08:58:03 pm »
I知 not convinced they would have needed to institute thee Emergencies Act, and I知 not convinced they couldn稚 do that if they wanted either.
I'm convinced that whatever they shoulda or coulda have done that it woulda been done just as incompetently.

Of all the things we need to build back better we better start with the government otherwise anything else will be a waste of time.

Offline JMT

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2867 on: February 04, 2021, 09:13:40 pm »
If that's the case, the act isn't worth the paper is written on.

The act can only exist within the framework of the distribution of powers. The provinces hold almost all of the power in confederation in a situation like this.

Offline JMT

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2868 on: February 04, 2021, 09:14:33 pm »
I知 not convinced they would have needed to institute thee Emergencies Act, and I知 not convinced they couldn稚 do that if they wanted either.

You can't force the provinces to adopt national standards in areas of provincial jurisdiction. Almost everything is provincial jurisdiction.

Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2869 on: February 04, 2021, 10:11:14 pm »
The act can only exist within the framework of the distribution of powers. The provinces hold almost all of the power in confederation in a situation like this.

Then it isn't worth the paper it is written on. By the time all the provinces agree, the emergency will have either passed or overwhelmed us.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline JMT

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2870 on: February 04, 2021, 10:30:15 pm »
Then it isn't worth the paper it is written on. By the time all the provinces agree, the emergency will have either passed or overwhelmed us.

It simply sets out a procedure by which overwhelmed provinces transfer authority and control to Ottawa. In this case, none of the provinces saw a need, nor did they want it.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2871 on: February 05, 2021, 12:22:01 am »
Then it isn't worth the paper it is written on. By the time all the provinces agree, the emergency will have either passed or overwhelmed us.

Agreed, this seems like a bum deal.  Everyone gets to do as they want and in that case it's decentralized, but we can't close our borders to provinces that aren't handling things as well because... federalism. 

Offline the_squid

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2872 on: February 05, 2021, 01:30:22 am »
It simply sets out a procedure by which overwhelmed provinces transfer authority and control to Ottawa. In this case, none of the provinces saw a need, nor did they want it.

Want your province to get COVID funding?  You put into place A, B and C to fight the virus and then you get your funding.

Offline JMT

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2873 on: February 05, 2021, 08:28:17 am »
Want your province to get COVID funding?  You put into place A, B and C to fight the virus and then you get your funding.

That is their only stick. I think that the early trust that the provinces would use the money as intended was nave. Ottawa seems to have learned a lesson with more recent payments.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2874 on: February 12, 2021, 11:42:43 am »
Manitoba is buying vaccine on their own.  Now provinces will be competing with each other for supply???   This is a dismal failure by the federal government. 

They have to put a stop to this immediately. 

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2875 on: February 12, 2021, 12:00:37 pm »
Dismal failure is hyperbole. I don't like Trudeau much, but the idea that the handling of COVID and vaccines has been a dismal failure just doesn't resonate with me or what I hear people outside this forum saying. People know the rollout is going to take time. If people still aren't being vaccinated by the end of the summer, it will be a problem. Right now, it reads more like a hiccup than a "dismal failure" and people mostly expected hiccups with the scope and scale of the vaccination programs.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2876 on: February 12, 2021, 12:18:41 pm »
39th in vaccines per capita is, so far, a failure. 

Quote
By now, there has been ample documentation as to why this is, and the roads lead back to specific and flawed decisions made by the Trudeau government at critical moments. An ambitious early deal with Chinese vaccine producer CanSino fell through when the Chinese government vetoed the shipment, likely for political reasons that were hardly impossible to anticipate given the gloomy state of Canada-China relations. The government likewise negotiated slowly and poorly with Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna, accepting an excessively pessimistic premise that large quantities of vaccine would neither be ready nor deliverable before April, leaving Ottawa startled when injection season wound up kicking off in December. In what seems destined to be yet another iconic Trudeau moment of halo-slipping, his government has been blasted for dipping into a vaccine stockpile intended for the developing world to supplement the deficient supply it obtained on its own.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/02/11/canada-vaccine-failures-justin-trudeau/?outputType=amp

Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2877 on: February 12, 2021, 12:56:15 pm »
Manitoba is buying vaccine on their own.  Now provinces will be competing with each other for supply???   This is a dismal failure by the federal government. 

They have to put a stop to this immediately.

I'm just happy someone is supporting a Canadian company that is developing mRNA vaccines. The federal government hasn't shown much interest.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2878 on: February 12, 2021, 10:22:43 pm »
Manitoba is buying vaccine on their own.  Now provinces will be competing with each other for supply???   This is a dismal failure by the federal government. 

They have to put a stop to this immediately.

That company may have 100K doses ready by the end of December.

All Canadians who want a vaccine will have it by the end of June.

Offline JMT

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2879 on: February 12, 2021, 10:26:54 pm »
39th in vaccines per capita is, so far, a failure. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/02/11/canada-vaccine-failures-justin-trudeau/?outputType=amp

Almost every country ahead of us is the US, UK, or Europe. Chile is ahead of us, because they got a shipment of 4M doses from Sinovac in China last week.

Vaccinations have been picking up. It's nothing compared to what will happen on Tuesday. 403K doses of Pfizer have been cleared for export to Canada by Europe.

By June, this will be be largely over.
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