Author Topic: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)  (Read 106161 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2175 on: November 22, 2020, 02:50:46 pm »
You've missed the fact that it's not an American vaccine.
I never said it was, that's simply an implication you just pulled out of your ass.

You'd think after years of trying you trolls would get better at what you practice but...nope. 
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Offline Montgomery

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2176 on: November 22, 2020, 02:57:24 pm »
I never said it was, that's simply an implication you just pulled out of your ass.

You'd think after years of trying you trolls would get better at what you practice but...nope.

You're intellectually inferior compared to the less than average intelligence standard set for this forum. Don't bother me until you have learned to debate at your own level first.

That's the quickest way to stop feeling bad.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2177 on: November 22, 2020, 03:28:03 pm »
Don't bother me until you have learned to debate at your own level first.

That's the quickest way to stop feeling bad.
I feel fine, a little bored perhaps.

I'm not debating you and while it may look like garden variety trolling it's actually more like shooting a fish in a barrel.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2178 on: November 22, 2020, 05:45:05 pm »
The world may be furious at China for being point zero of a pandemic is that having serious health and economic repercussions, but one thing we don't give them credit for is how they contained the virus.

Until now, I argued that they were brutal and draconian in the measures they took and I don't know if the ends justified the means, but I read an interesting article in the Lancet that shows there was more to it than brute force.

From a government standpoint, China did more than than enforce harsh lockdowns.  They have a centralized system which did not need coordinated efforts.  They built hospitals that were intermediary places for people who tested positive so that they don't stay at home and get other family members sick.  If the patients' symptoms got more severe, they were taken to the hospital at that point.  Only one family member was allowed out to go shopping, and drones ensured mask compliance.  They banned big gatherings while we twiddled right up until we locked things down. 

From a society standpoint, their population is more compliant.  They don't have anti-science, anti-vaxxers the way we do, and they don't have the freedumb loving culture we do, so there were no 'my body my choice' idiots.  Also, only 3% of elders live in long-term care centres where the virus has devastating effects.

Bonnie Henry keeps getting flack for not mandating lockdowns and mask-wearing and I admit I was on board, but I do now see her point.  Those measures aren't effective by themselves, there are many components to a successful containment and mask-wearing/lockdowns are only one aspect of it. 

We are lacking in the centralization efforts, we lack the culture and the level of government intervention needed to put in place an effective lockdown.

Admittedly, China was too draconian for what would be acceptable in western societies, but they maintained their economy and are living a normal life at this point so it becomes a personal question on what is and isn't acceptable. 

At the other end of the scale we have the US where they sacrificed their citizens for the sake of the economy only to suffer the health and welfare of their citizens and a longer spanning economic ordeal.

Personally, I am realizing now that China actually got it right.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30800-8/fulltext

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Offline Montgomery

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2179 on: November 22, 2020, 06:53:46 pm »
The world may be furious at China for being point zero of a pandemic is that having serious health and economic repercussions, but one thing we don't give them credit for is how they contained the virus.

Until now, I argued that they were brutal and draconian in the measures they took and I don't know if the ends justified the means, but I read an interesting article in the Lancet that shows there was more to it than brute force.

From a government standpoint, China did more than than enforce harsh lockdowns.  They have a centralized system which did not need coordinated efforts.  They built hospitals that were intermediary places for people who tested positive so that they don't stay at home and get other family members sick.  If the patients' symptoms got more severe, they were taken to the hospital at that point.  Only one family member was allowed out to go shopping, and drones ensured mask compliance.  They banned big gatherings while we twiddled right up until we locked things down. 

From a society standpoint, their population is more compliant.  They don't have anti-science, anti-vaxxers the way we do, and they don't have the freedumb loving culture we do, so there were no 'my body my choice' idiots.  Also, only 3% of elders live in long-term care centres where the virus has devastating effects.

Bonnie Henry keeps getting flack for not mandating lockdowns and mask-wearing and I admit I was on board, but I do now see her point.  Those measures aren't effective by themselves, there are many components to a successful containment and mask-wearing/lockdowns are only one aspect of it. 

We are lacking in the centralization efforts, we lack the culture and the level of government intervention needed to put in place an effective lockdown.

Admittedly, China was too draconian for what would be acceptable in western societies, but they maintained their economy and are living a normal life at this point so it becomes a personal question on what is and isn't acceptable. 

At the other end of the scale we have the US where they sacrificed their citizens for the sake of the economy only to suffer the health and welfare of their citizens and a longer spanning economic ordeal.

Personally, I am realizing now that China actually got it right.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30800-8/fulltext


Is that your own words or a quote from the link?
If yours then congratulations!
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2180 on: November 22, 2020, 07:09:06 pm »
Guess you would know if you read the link.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2181 on: November 22, 2020, 07:53:18 pm »
The world may be furious at China for being point zero of a pandemic is that having serious health and economic repercussions, but one thing we don't give them credit for is how they contained the virus.

This is true from what I know.  Turns out civil liberties aren't good for containing a pandemic.

There are times when government needs to step in and times when they need to back off, which some people don't seem to understand.  Over-generalizations are a disease of our thinking.  Things are often more complex than we give them credit for.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2182 on: November 23, 2020, 12:04:12 am »
This is true from what I know.  Turns out civil liberties aren't good for containing a pandemic.

There are times when government needs to step in and times when they need to back off, which some people don't seem to understand.  Over-generalizations are a disease of our thinking.  Things are often more complex than we give them credit for.

As I said in the rest of my post, China's success wasn't just in in approach to civil liberties.  They also had superior medical care and a superior cultural attitude.

Speaking of cultural attitudes, there is more than just anti-science cohorts that are making things more difficult and it doesn't get discussed enough.  Let's suppose the virus has a fatality rate of 2-3% but all ages were susceptible to a more severe outcome.  Is there any doubt that there would be less indifference? 

If we were more honest about it, blatant ageism is masquerading as anti-science.  China's culture being pro-science is also because they value their elderly.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 12:08:40 am by BC_cheque »

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2183 on: November 23, 2020, 12:20:09 am »
How does one know that China truthfully reported their COVID deaths?   I would be very sceptical about anything China puts out. In fact, there are intelligence reports that they did just that. 

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2184 on: November 23, 2020, 12:24:32 am »
100% agree, but I'm not talking about their fatality numbers during the pandemic.  I'm only talking about their containment of the virus.  There is no doubt they have succeeded in a way that is allowing them to have a more normal life than we are.

Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2185 on: November 23, 2020, 12:34:43 am »
In fact, there are intelligence reports that they did just that.

given your matter-of-factness, citation request - thanks in advance! I trust those said reports aren't politicized, hey!
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2186 on: November 23, 2020, 12:59:41 am »
100% agree, but I'm not talking about their fatality numbers during the pandemic.  I'm only talking about their containment of the virus.  There is no doubt they have succeeded in a way that is allowing them to have a more normal life than we are.

I’m not sure how well they contained it....   their deaths could very well be much, much worse than our’s are...  so  does that mean they “contained” it?  Italy “contained” it too....   

I think we need to concentrate on looking to see what other western nations have done right and emulate those.  Japan is doing a phenomenal job with the virus.  As Eyeball says...  let’s hire people like that to come here and teach us how it’s done!   China?  Well...  who the hell knows what facts the Commies are hiding...
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Offline waldo

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2187 on: November 23, 2020, 01:07:49 am »
China?  Well...  who the hell knows what facts the Commies are hiding...

member squiggy - such fevered backpedaling on your part!  ;D

In fact, there are intelligence reports that they did just that.

given your matter-of-factness, citation request - thanks in advance! I trust those said reports aren't politicized, hey!
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Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak
« Reply #2188 on: November 23, 2020, 09:03:12 am »
I can understand where Dr Henry is coming from but what do you do about the people who won’t buy in? You can’t ignore them like a child having a tantrum because they are a danger to the rest of society.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline wilber

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Re: Covid Culture (was Outbreak Culture)
« Reply #2189 on: November 23, 2020, 09:12:26 am »
I’m not sure how well they contained it....   their deaths could very well be much, much worse than our’s are...  so  does that mean they “contained” it?  Italy “contained” it too....   

I think we need to concentrate on looking to see what other western nations have done right and emulate those.  Japan is doing a phenomenal job with the virus.  As Eyeball says...  let’s hire people like that to come here and teach us how it’s done!   China?  Well...  who the hell knows what facts the Commies are hiding...

Japan has a disciplined society that has a strong sense of the common good and where things like mask wearing in disease seasons is an accepted practice. Our problem is cultural. There is no point in trying to teach people who aren’t capable of listening and acting on what they are taught.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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