Author Topic: Our selective support for oppressed women  (Read 544 times)

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guest4

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Our selective support for oppressed women
« on: January 21, 2018, 08:34:09 am »
Malala and Ahed are both young women who have been targeted for standing up against threats to their security and freedom.  Malala is a Western hero, Ahed is invisible to us.  This article examines why.
https://tinyurl.com/y97ey9uy

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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 10:57:13 am »
Malala and Ahed are both young women who have been targeted for standing up against threats to their security and freedom.  Malala is a Western hero, Ahed is invisible to us.  This article examines why.
https://tinyurl.com/y97ey9uy

The "curious lack of support (...) from Western feminist groups, human rights advocates and state officials who otherwise present themselves as the purveyors of human rights and champions of girls' empowerment" always seems to me to be the norm.  The reaction to Malala was token, more to relieve western guilt than anything else.  Nice, but hey Gordon, how come there were no prosecutions for FGM while you were PM?

As for Ahed, I had never heard of her, that's for sure, but as almost half of the UN's resolutions are against Israel, I don't think the plight in general is being ignored.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline TimG

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 11:04:44 am »
Malala and Ahed are both young women who have been targeted for standing up against threats to their security and freedom.  Malala is a Western hero, Ahed is invisible to us.  This article examines why.
Only if you are naive enough to believe the article presents all of the relevant facts. Columnists want to create narratives and tend to ignore those facts which undermine the narrative (no matter what side of political spectrum they are on). There are simply too many open questions (i.e. why were soldiers using tear gas in the first place if there was no threat?) to take the article at face value. Especially given the backdrop where we have an audience of people who are convinced that the Palestinians bear no responsibility for the quagmire that exists and reject any suggestion that Israeli soldiers might be acting appropriately given the facts on the ground.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 11:21:51 am by TimG »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2018, 11:25:44 am »
Malala and Ahed are both young women who have been targeted for standing up against threats to their security and freedom.  Malala is a Western hero, Ahed is invisible to us.  This article examines why.
https://tinyurl.com/y97ey9uy

Gee, let's see. Malala was younger, and all she was doing was saying girls should go to school when crazy Muslims tried to murder her, shooting her on her school bus. The other is 16 and assaulted Israeli soldiers during a violent demonstration, repeatedly. She doesn't face death or even long imprisonment. The Israeli courts are far, FAR more secular, tolerant and fair than anything in the Muslim world could ever aspire to be.

Now suppose you tell us why you and all the other desperate, hand-wringing progressives who scour the internet in search of reasons to condemn Israel haven't said word one about the way Turkey's Islamist government is bombing and attacking Kurdish areas across their border. I mean, this isn't even in retaliation for anything. It's simply part of their ongoing attempt to destroy any kind of leadership, unity or home for Kurds in Iraq and Syria as they ruthlessly oppress their own Kurdish population. I can just imagine if this was Israel bombing and invading Lebanon or Syria or Palestinian areas how you and the others would squealing like pigs (no pun intended).
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline kimmy

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 11:35:42 am »
Malala and Ahed are both young women who have been targeted for standing up against threats to their security and freedom.  Malala is a Western hero, Ahed is invisible to us.  This article examines why.
https://tinyurl.com/y97ey9uy

I will support the most obvious answer: their causes are different.  Malala is a champion of the right of girls to have access to have education.  It's universally popular.  Everyone supports that, except for the Taliban and Boko Haram and certain members of the alt-right perhaps.

Ahed is a champion of the end of Israeli occupation of the West Bank.  That's a cause that people feel a lot more ambivalent about.


As for Ahed...  why Ahed, and not some other Palestinian girl?   I bet that everybody who opens your article will be immediately struck by the same thing: she's blonde, blue-eyed, light-skinned.  That has to be pretty unique among Palestinians. She's photogenic, and she looks and dresses like a typical white western teenager.  And it's not a coincidence that the Palestinian freedom-fighter who is becoming a social media phenomenon happens to be the Palestinian who looks and dresses like a typical white western teenager.   Media have taken an interest in Ahed, as opposed to some other Palestinian girl, in at least some measure because of how she looks and not what she has done.  And that's not lost on Palestinian activists, who are trying to leverage her photogenic looks to gain attention and sympathy.



 -k
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Offline Omni

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 11:47:47 am »
Gee, let's see. Malala was younger, and all she was doing was saying girls should go to school when crazy Muslims tried to murder her, shooting her on her school bus. The other is 16 and assaulted Israeli soldiers during a violent demonstration, repeatedly. She doesn't face death or even long imprisonment. The Israeli courts are far, FAR more secular, tolerant and fair than anything in the Muslim world could ever aspire to be.

Now suppose you tell us why you and all the other desperate, hand-wringing progressives who scour the internet in search of reasons to condemn Israel haven't said word one about the way Turkey's Islamist government is bombing and attacking Kurdish areas across their border. I mean, this isn't even in retaliation for anything. It's simply part of their ongoing attempt to destroy any kind of leadership, unity or home for Kurds in Iraq and Syria as they ruthlessly oppress their own Kurdish population. I can just imagine if this was Israel bombing and invading Lebanon or Syria or Palestinian areas how you and the others would squealing like pigs (no pun intended).

You quite conveniently ignore the bits about her cousin getting shot in the head and the teargas being fired into the yard blowing the windows out of the house. I'm surprised you, after much hand wringing I can imagine, you chose to support Malala since she seems to be quite a bit more obviously a dark skinned foreigner.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 11:57:57 am »
You quite conveniently ignore the bits about her cousin getting shot in the head and the teargas being fired into the yard blowing the windows out of the house.

She is an activist from an activist family. I could perhaps point out that if a girl attacked soldiers in Turkey or Iran or Saudi Arabia they would be immediately beaten and then arrested and likely raped in prison. Fortunately, the Israelis are far more restrained.

they point out the Tamimi family is known for its activism, regularly leading Friday demonstrations against Israeli soldiers and the occupation in their village. The demonstrations often turn into clashes with Israeli forces. Events are filmed and then disseminated on social media making Ahed and her family online celebrities.
To be sure, Ahed has been feted for several years. Her introduction to the world stage came in 2012 when a photograph of her with a clenched fist, staring down an Israeli soldier, went viral. Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan hosted her in Turkey where she received an award for courage.


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/05/middleeast/ahed-tamimi-palestinian-activist/index.html


Quote
I'm surprised you, after much hand wringing I can imagine, you chose to support Malala since she seems to be quite a bit more obviously a dark skinned foreigner.

You are probably surprised every time you succeed in tying your shoes  without assistance- or do you use velcro because of how complicated all that knot tying stuff is?

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2018, 12:00:03 pm »
She is an activist from an activist family. I could perhaps point out that if a girl attacked soldiers in Turkey or Iran or Saudi Arabia they would be immediately beaten and then arrested and likely raped in prison. Fortunately, the Israelis are far more restrained.

they point out the Tamimi family is known for its activism, regularly leading Friday demonstrations against Israeli soldiers and the occupation in their village. The demonstrations often turn into clashes with Israeli forces. Events are filmed and then disseminated on social media making Ahed and her family online celebrities.
To be sure, Ahed has been feted for several years. Her introduction to the world stage came in 2012 when a photograph of her with a clenched fist, staring down an Israeli soldier, went viral. Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan hosted her in Turkey where she received an award for courage.


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/05/middleeast/ahed-tamimi-palestinian-activist/index.html


You are probably surprised every time you succeed in tying your shoes  without assistance- or do you use velcro because of how complicated all that knot tying stuff is?

sir argus, right on cue as usual. hahahah.

guest4

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2018, 12:03:35 pm »

Now suppose you tell us why you and all the other desperate, hand-wringing progressives

you and the others would squealing like pigs (no pun intended).

What is wrong with you that you can't manage to post an opposing viewpoint without resorting to gratuitous slurs and insults against other people? 

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2018, 12:03:51 pm »
Ahed has been feted for several years. Her introduction to the world stage came in 2012 when a photograph of her with a clenched fist, staring down an Israeli soldier, went viral.

I saw that photo.  She's saying "Hey, check this out!  Been doing pushups!"
Time for bed said Zebedee...

guest4

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 12:17:16 pm »
Other than SJ, I have found the viewpoints interesting and informative.  But I think I may have suddenly been felled by the flu, so don't feel up to responding individually.

What I found interesting about the article was that it differentiated between State-sanctioned repression and non-State actors.    If Ahad was Isreali and similarly treated by Hamas, would her story have gained international interest and condemnation toward Hamas and Palestinians?   But shouldn't oppressive behavior be universally condemned?

Offline Omni

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 12:27:37 pm »
Other than SJ, I have found the viewpoints interesting and informative.  But I think I may have suddenly been felled by the flu, so don't feel up to responding individually.

What I found interesting about the article was that it differentiated between State-sanctioned repression and non-State actors.    If Ahad was Isreali and similarly treated by Hamas, would her story have gained international interest and condemnation toward Hamas and Palestinians?   But shouldn't oppressive behavior be universally condemned?

As to the last part of your post: yes it would, and, yes it should.
Hope the flu doesn't hit too hard. Did you get your shot?

Offline MH

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2018, 12:56:27 pm »
The article answers it:

Quote
There are multiple reasons for this deafening silence. First among them is the widespread acceptance of state-sanctioned violence as legitimate.

Yes, that is it.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 02:40:21 pm »
What is wrong with you that you can't manage to post an opposing viewpoint without resorting to gratuitous slurs and insults against other people?

I don't like the gratuitous anti-Semitism which is now a part of progressive mainstream politics.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Our selective support for oppressed women
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2018, 02:41:34 pm »
Other than SJ, I have found the viewpoints interesting and informative.

Ahh, did I throw some of that 'MSM' light on your Al Jazeera propaganda piece? So sad!
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum