Author Topic: NK-USA War Culture  (Read 278 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7713
NK-USA War Culture
« on: July 18, 2017, 06:31:04 am »
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-worst-problem-on-earth/528717/

The 4 clear ways forward, and why nothing is likely to change soon.   A long but well-written article.

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 11:52:21 am »
Surprisingly, Putin seems to have the most logical way to deal with N. Korea:

Quote
Russian President Vladimir Putin warned on Friday that the tense standoff between North Korea and the United States was on the verge of large-scale conflict, and said it was a mistake to try to pressure Pyongyang over its nuclear missile program.

Putin, due to attend a summit of the BRICS nations in China next week, said the only way to de-escalate tensions was via talks, and Sergei Lavrov, his foreign minister, said Washington not Pyongyang should take the initiative on that.

"It is essential to resolve the region's problems through direct dialogue involving all sides without advancing any preconditions [for such talks]," Putin wrote on the Kremlin's website.

"Provocations, pressure, and bellicose and offensive rhetoric is the road to nowhere."

N. Korea will be able to hit the US with a ICBM.  Big deal. The US has how many nukes pointed at Pyongyang at any given time?  The USSR had how nukes pointed at the US for decades?  North Korea is simply looking for an option to ensure its survival & deter an attack from South Korea, the US etc. N Korea are bad people but not suicidal.  They threaten but don't attack, it's just posturing.

US's poor relations with Russia, Iran, and North Korea stem from the Cold War.  They need to be laid to rest, leaders need to get together & let very old disputes be water under the bridge.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline cybercoma

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 11:56:18 am »
The political backlash against the United States would be incredibly harsh if they nuked Pyongyang. Make no mistake about that. A nuclear strike would murder thousands of innocent people and severely injure millions for generations. That kind of attack is not warranted in our increasingly interconnected world. The people of North Korea are bigger victims of that state's regime than anyone else. A nuclear strike would be so inhumane as to be completely reprehensible and worthy of severe repercussions against the United States.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 02:54:54 pm »
Surprisingly, Putin seems to have the most logical way to deal with N. Korea:

N. Korea will be able to hit the US with a ICBM.  Big deal. The US has how many nukes pointed at Pyongyang at any given time?  The USSR had how nukes pointed at the US for decades?  North Korea is simply looking for an option to ensure its survival & deter an attack from South Korea, the US etc. N Korea are bad people but not suicidal.  They threaten but don't attack, it's just posturing.

The problem is not A country with an ICBM, but A country led by a violent wack job who murders his relatives with anti-aircraft guns and chemical weapons with an ICBM. And if the theory of EMPs works out, and he has threatened an EMP against the US, 90% of the North America could effectively be wiped out with one missile.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7713
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 03:41:20 pm »
What's your source on this EMP risk ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse#Effects

I hadn't heard of it but it seems largely unknown.  Not that I don't need a new thing to be paranoid about...

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 03:51:35 pm »
What's your source on this EMP risk ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse#Effects

I hadn't heard of it but it seems largely unknown.  Not that I don't need a new thing to be paranoid about...

This is not a bad cite for Canada. It should make you paranoid. Unfortunately governments seem to be largely ignoring the danger http://mackenzieinstitute.com/emp-threat-canada-2/

Here is another reasonable cite.

http://futurescience.com/emp.html
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7713
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 04:30:15 pm »
Hmmm.... seems pretty bad.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 06:30:55 pm »
Hmmm.... seems pretty bad.

To put it mildly...

The thing which I find frustrating is this is not new information. An EMP doesn't have to come from crazy North Koreans. It could come from the sun. We're overdue to get hit by a mass coronal ejection. And we could protect the electrical system if we wanted to. But we're not. Politicians have other priorities. The US could protect its grid for a measly $20 billion, but doesn't want to spend the money. Yet it's spent $400 billion so far on Afghanistan. As for Canada, Ontario's government renegotiated long term loans and contracts with electrical suppliers to temporarily ease prices in the runup to an election next year, at a long term cost of $21 billion.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 05:46:36 pm »
The problem is not A country with an ICBM, but A country led by a violent wack job who murders his relatives with anti-aircraft guns and chemical weapons with an ICBM. And if the theory of EMPs works out, and he has threatened an EMP against the US, 90% of the North America could effectively be wiped out with one missile.

If Kim Jong Un wants to commit suicide, he's more than welcome to launch a missile at the US.  I think he'd rather live.  It's all sabre-rattling.  I'd rather they not have nukes, but it's far too late now to do anything about it that won't end in fullscale war.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 05:52:13 pm by JMT »
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 06:32:14 pm »
If Kim Jong Un wants to commit suicide, he's more than welcome to launch a missile at the US.  I think he'd rather live.  It's all sabre-rattling.  I'd rather they not have nukes, but it's far too late now to do anything about it that won't end in fullscale war.
The problem is the endless extortion attempts that will follow. i.e. pay us lots of money or we nuke LA. The US really needs to deploy its anti missile tech and demonstrate to NK that any missile it shoots will be shot down.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2017, 07:25:41 pm »
The problem is the endless extortion attempts that will follow. i.e. pay us lots of money or we nuke LA. The US really needs to deploy its anti missile tech and demonstrate to NK that any missile it shoots will be shot down.

How will "pay us lots of money or we nuke LA" work if the US can just say "do it and we'll nuke every city in North Korea 10 times"?  Mutually assured destruction has kept us all alive the last 60-70 years.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2017, 04:34:49 pm »
How will "pay us lots of money or we nuke LA" work if the US can just say "do it and we'll nuke every city in North Korea 10 times"?  Mutually assured destruction has kept us all alive the last 60-70 years.

More likely it will be North Korea attacking South Korea and warning the US that if they 'interfere' he will launch nukes at LA and NY.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7713
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2017, 05:03:29 pm »
More likely it will be North Korea attacking South Korea and warning the US that if they 'interfere' he will launch nukes at LA and NY.

Oh wow.  I never thought of that.  Well, you can still have conventional war between superpowers with MAD in place.

The other theory I heard is that once the capabilities are in place, he'll make a single set of demands for terms such as dropped sanctions and NK will be a nuclear power moving forward.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2017, 05:43:47 pm »
More likely it will be North Korea attacking South Korea and warning the US that if they 'interfere' he will launch nukes at LA and NY.

The US has nuclear subs.  North Korea would be ash before their nukes ever got halfway to LA.  I'd also assume the US has top-secret contingency measures for defense against incoming ICBM's, like counter-missiles, or F-35 jets shooting them out of the sky over the pacific. 

Again, you're assuming Kim Jung Un is suicidal, which I doubt he is.  The US would say "we will defend South Korea, and if you strike us with nukes your country will be completely obliterated".
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline JBG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • Left-Wing Democrat (similar to NDP)
  • Location: New York area
Re: NK-USA War Culture
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2017, 06:32:36 am »
The political backlash against the United States would be incredibly harsh if they nuked Pyongyang. Make no mistake about that. A nuclear strike would murder thousands of innocent people and severely injure millions for generations. That kind of attack is not warranted in our increasingly interconnected world. The people of North Korea are bigger victims of that state's regime than anyone else. A nuclear strike would be so inhumane as to be completely reprehensible and worthy of severe repercussions against the United States.
I think we need to be indifferent to "(t)he political backlash against the United States." When other countries like us, as they allegedly did during the Carter, Clinton and Obama years we get kind words but no real benefit. When other countries don't like us, as they allegedly don't under Trump there's no real harm. The "world community" has proven useless to restrain Pyongyang.
Trump - Watch what he does, not how he says it.

====================
 If it's us or them, I choose us