Author Topic: International Jewish Voices  (Read 4689 times)

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Offline Rue

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #135 on: May 26, 2019, 10:22:48 am »
I will now try provide some information as to the settlement disputes. I appreciate because of its complexity it is lengthy and so Granny or Waldo will not read it but it will show why Granny is focusing on issues without understanding how they evolved and try explain why they have come about and how they are not as simple as she claims:

1- 90% of all Jewish settlements have been  established on barren undeveloped land throughout the West Bank.

"This is evident even in photos taken by anti-settlement advocacy groups such as Peace Now and B’tselem.63 Since 1980, all settlement activity has been on public land. The process of establishing that settlement land is not private land owned by Arabs is “an exhaustive investigation process” monitored by the Israel Supreme Court.64 West Bank Arab residents who feel wronged when their private land is acquired (with compensation) for public purposes (such as new roads, public services, military installations, etc.) have the right of appeal directly to the Supreme Court."

sources for above: “Land Grab: Israel’s Settlement Policy in the West Bank,” B’tselem, p. 49, quoting a senior civil servant in the Ministry of Interior, Israeli Settlements and International Law,” prepared by the legal advisor of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, March 2001, at:
http://www.gamla.org.il/english/docs/gen.htm , Chaim Herzog, ibid.


2. 80% percent of Jewish settlers reside adjacent to the Green Line along Israel’s ‘narrow hips,’ and many others are in strategically sensitive areas.


"The actual developed areas of Israeli settlements occupy less than 2% of the landmass of the West Bank.

Peace Now, which favors unilateral withdrawal and dismantling of Jewish communities in the West Bank, estimates the Jewish communities there take up only 1.36 percent of the land. The human rights organization B’tselem, which monitors Jewish building construction on the West Bank and reports its scope to parties abroad, also found the extent of Jewish settlement to be marginal. A B’tselem study published in 2002 found the percentage of developed areas of Jewish settlement on the West Bank comprises 1.7% of all land on the West Bank; if one includes non-developed municipal areas (almost all of which is unpopulated and zoned to meet expansion needs), 5.1% of the West Bank is ‘occupied’ by Jewish settlements.66 The other 94.9 percent is either land owned by local Arabs and registered in the Land Registry, IDF military installations, public lands administered by the government or undeveloped public land zoned to local councils."

source: http://www.mythsandfacts.org/Conflict/2/territories2.htm



3. Jews did not just suddenly show up on the West Bank

"Following the 1967 Six-Day War, the rise of Jewish settlements symbolized the restoration of a dimension of history often ignored by Arabs and unknown to most non-Israelis, which is that Jews had lived in the West Bank and the Old City of Jerusalem during Mandate times. That period ended only after they were killed or driven out in the aftermath of the 1948 war - when Jewish communities were obliterated. Between 1949 and 1967, Jordanian military personnel razed Jewish settlements, destroyed 58 synagogues, and used headstones from the Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives to build roads.In the course of the 1948 War, the West Bank was rendered judenrein – ethnically cleansed of Jews – by Jordanian invaders."

source for above: Jeff Jacoby, “When Jerusalem was divided,” Jewish World Review, January 9, 2001, at:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby010901.asp.

" The mountainous areas of Judea and Samaria were the cradles of Jewish civilization – from Bethel, where Jacob fought with the angels, and Shilo, where the Ark of the Covenant resided, to Hebron, the city of the Patriarchs. The Old City in Jerusalem, Hebron in Judea, Safed and Tiberius in the Galilee, were four holy cities where the Jews were concentrated throughout the ages. In 1898, on the eve of the first wave of Zionist immigration, Edwin S. Wallace, Consul General of the United States, visited Palestine and Jerusalem and wrote:68
Of the eighty thousand Jews in Palestine, fully one-half are living within the walls, or in the twenty-three colonies just outside the walls, of Jerusalem.

Where the Jewish population [in Jerusalem] outnumbers all others, three to one [a full 75 percent], the Jew has few rights.
Although permitted to settle anywhere west of the Jordan River, Zionist settlements were concentrated first in the coastal area, the Galilee and the Negev, in Jerusalem and Hebron in Judea. Jewish settlement elsewhere was more sparse.

During the 1948 War of Independence, the Jewish inhabitants - the men, women and children - living in communities north of Jerusalem and in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City, in the Etzion bloc between Hebron and Jerusalem and in the Jordan Rift Valley, were either evacuated to save their lives, killed as combatants while defending their homes, massacred after they surrendered or taken as prisoners of war and not allowed to return to their homes. 2,000 Jewish inhabitants of the Old City, who lived next to the holiest site in Judaism – the Western Wall of the Temple Mount - were an intolerable presence to the Arabs. Not one Jew was allowed to reside in or visit Jordanian territory, including the Old City, for 19 years.

After illegally annexing the West Bank in 1950, Jordan adopted a law in 1954 granting Jordanian citizenship to residents of the West Bank. The law covered those who had been subjects of the British Mandate and stipulated “any man will be a Jordanian subject … if he is not Jewish.”69 Jordan also prohibited Jordanians from selling land to Jews by penalty of death; the Palestinian Authority adopted a similar law in the 1990s."

source:  cited in a speech by Chaim Herzog, Israeli ambassador to the UN (1975-78) – “Jewish settlements in ‘the Territories’ Aren’t the Problem,” republished by FrontPage magazine.com, at:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=7142.



cont.

You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline Rue

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #136 on: May 26, 2019, 10:30:43 am »
source: https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24472429.html

The above is a neutral article that summarizes what obstacles will have to be dealt with to try to obtain peace
You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline Rue

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #137 on: May 26, 2019, 11:40:21 am »
Further info for you to consider:

Palestinian Population

https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-census-4-7-million-in-west-bank-and-gaza-strip/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/palestine-population/

https://www.livepopulation.com/country/palestinian.html



Population of Israeli settlers on West Bank:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-settlements-population-in-the-west-bank

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-revealed-how-many-settlers-really-live-in-the-west-bank-1.5482213

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_statistics_for_Israeli_settlements_in_the_West_Bank


Arguments That  Jewish Settlements are NOT Illegal (there is another side to the argument that is usually never discussed here it is if anyone is interested, many are not, but its there if someone is interested in both sides of the argument and does not just assume one side is the right one-my position is both sides have equally as valid legal claims)

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/myths-and-facts-settlements

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-settlements-under-international-law

http://www.sfmew.org/settlements/

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/the_israeli_settlements_in_the_west_bank.htm

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israels-right-to-the-west-bank/
https://israelrising.com/israeli-settlements-illegal/


Legal Process To Obtain and Build A  Settlement

1-multiple steps must be undertaken and approvals granted before a new building can be constructed in a settlement

2-process can often take multiple years and many plans

3-the Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Housing and Construction, Regional Councils, and Jerusalem City Council all play a role at various stages in the approval process

4-plans: plans for settlement construction in the West Bank must be submitted and approved by Israel’s Civil Administration; if approved, plans must be published so public can voice objections; based on these objections, plans may be accepted, rejected or a recommendation may be issued to change the plan

You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline waldo

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #138 on: May 26, 2019, 12:27:47 pm »
Israel Admits Palestinian Laborers Are Often Exploited to Receive Work Permits --- In what a rights group calls a historic decision, the government is moving to correct the system in which employers buy and sell work permits and pass the cost onto employees

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Palestinians who seek an Israeli work permit are sometimes forced to pay up to 2,500 shekels ($703) a month to middlemen, according to a study in which the Finance Ministry took part.

The sum ranges between 1,500 shekels and 2,500 shekels, about a quarter to a third of a Palestinian laborers’ average monthly salary, says the study, which marks the first time the government has recognized this exploitation of Palestinian workers – and a bizarre trade in work permits among employers.

Palestinian laborers are bound to a specific Israeli employer when receiving a work permit. For example, Ayman, a 45-year-old from a village near Jenin, pays about 2,400 shekels a month, though his employer sometimes chips in.

“There’s no choice,” says Ayman, who declined to give his last name. “We have to work, even if we have to pay a lot of money to a contractor.”

According to a government document obtained by Haaretz, “The employment method has not created proper employment conditions for workers. Moreover, it has allowed many situations in which salaries have not been paid to employees.”

Palestinian workers have submitted claims for nonpayment of salaries and other benefits against contractors worth 6 billion shekels.

The document is the work of an interministerial team set up to implement a 2016 cabinet decision on “improving regulation and changing the allocation of workers in the construction industry.” Behind this bureaucratic language lies a dramatic change in the employment of Palestinian laborers, whose number is predicted to reach 87,000 by the end of this year, three times the number in 2011.

One reason for the change is the need to increase the number of construction workers in a bid to build more homes and lower housing prices. The authorities also realize that the system for employing Palestinians – which has changed little over 50 years – has failed.

‘Scalping work permits’

Currently, the allocation of Palestinian workers is carried out by the Population, Immigration and Border Authority at the Interior Ministry, based on quotas decided by the government. Every month, the authority decides how to divide up these workers among contractors.

After the number of permits is decided on, each contractor submits a request to employ laborers and provides the details of every person he wants to employ. After a criminal and security check, the laborer is issued a work permit that explicitly states the employer’s name and industry. The worker must remain with this employer – but reality tells a different story.

“The allocation has led to contractors holding permits without even needing workers, because they fear that if they cancel the permits they will not receive workers in the future,” the document states. “This complete dependence of the workers on the contractors and the need for the contractors to hold permits have created fertile ground for an industry of scalping permits.”

For example, after a contractor reports that he needs 10 workers, he receives the permits. If the work finishes earlier than scheduled, or if the contractor can suffice with fewer employees, he has excess workers. They are a valuable resource that can be transferred to another contractor who does not have enough permits. The new employer pays the contractor in whose name the permits were issued, but he makes the Palestinian worker pay this amount out of his own pocket.

The Palestinians have little choice but to cooperate if they want to work, particularly in light of the weak Palestinian economy.

This trade in permits also has other effects. It turns out that an estimated 30 percent of workers meant for the construction industry actually work in other sectors after being allotted to other employers. The lack of competition between contractors – because they cannot hire workers freely and compete for them by offering higher pay and better conditions – is a main reason salaries have remained at minimum-wage levels, the Finance Ministry said.

The cabinet decided to implement a new mechanism for employing Palestinian workers as of July 1, but this has yet to happen.

Everything online

The new model is based on two major changes. First, the laborer can work for any contractor in the industry without approval in advance; he need not be tied to a particular employer. And the contractor can employ as many workers as he needs – within the limits of the overall quota approved by the government.

Also, salaries and other payments would be made online. This would greatly reduce the employer’s ability to pay less than required. Meanwhile, the middlemen and brokers would ostensibly be out of work, the document says.

The various ministries, including the finance and defense ministries along with the Israel Defense Forces’ Civil Administration in the West Bank, have many explanations on why the new model was not implemented this month. Some sources say the Defense Ministry is not eager to change the situation.

It is still not clear, however, whether the new freer market will reduce the exploitation. The Finance Ministry believes the workers will now have greater bargaining power and be able to switch jobs more easily. The ministry sees its main role as oversight; the employers will be the ones responsible for paying properly – the same situation as with Israeli workers.

Still, it's clear that without proper oversight and supervision, the planned changes will only be partially effective.

The workers’ rights group Kav La’oved says that for years it has recommended the new model, which should be praised as a historic decision improving the plight of Palestinian workers.

But other changes are needed; for example, the Population Authority’s payments department has failed to ensure Palestinian workers’ social rights.

For its part, the authority says its payments department has striven for years to ensure that Palestinian workers employed in Israel receive their work permits, salaries and benefits according to the law. “Nonetheless, the division’s operations do not replace employers’ responsibility to keep to all the agreements or relevant orders of labor law,” it said.

The Civil Administration said it has “formulated a new employment model and is even promoting it in the interministerial framework. When the work is done, we will act to implement it.”

The Defense Ministry did not comment.

Offline waldo

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #139 on: May 26, 2019, 12:39:41 pm »
Exploited and abandoned, the Palestinians are truly the betrayed

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Writing in the New York Times less than a week after 61 Palestinians had been shot dead by Israeli soldiers, and nearly 3,000 were wounded, the political editor of the Jewish Journal, Shmuel Rosner, had this to say in an opinion piece entitled “Israel Needs to Protect Its Borders: By Whatever Means Necessary”: “Of course, the death of humans is never a happy occasion. Still, I feel no need to engage in ingénue mourning. Guarding the border was more important than avoiding killing, and guarding the border is what Israel did successfully.”

It was a hard, cold line of defence, one that was presented over and over again by the Israeli government and its supporters; the killings were justified by the need to secure the border and protect Israelis whose lives were threatened. That carefully orchestrated response, together with two stark facts, suggests emphatically that Israel wanted the bloodshed and intended it as a frank and brutal message to the Palestinians.

The facts are simple: the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) had alternatives to the use of live rounds: much heavier use of tear gas and the use of stun grenades, water cannon, even birdshot. Most, if not all of these, have been used to control protests in places like Bahrain, a fact to which I can attest having covered that Gulf country’s unhappy history for more than a decade.

Furthermore, the Israelis had known for weeks in advance of Hamas’s intention to provoke a march to the border using civilians as cannon fodder and still they chose to behave in the way they did, cutting down men, women and children, journalists and medical workers with round after round of sniper fire.

Had the Israelis and the Americans given any thought to the split screen images of a glossy US Embassy opening in Jerusalem juxtaposed with the massacre going on less than sixty miles away? Probably not. But then it didn’t really matter to them. Benjamin Netanyahu, emboldened by Donald Trump, saw the opportunity and seized the day. He had already calculated the consequences, Palestinians be damned.

What was the message that Netanyahu wanted to send to the people of Palestine? You have no hope, no future, you have only despair unless you accept our plan for peace. Otherwise we, with the collusion of Egypt, will continue to bleed you and squeeze you. We do not need to negotiate with you. Negotiations are finished. Take the plan we offer. Listen to your Arab brothers like Mohammad Bin Salman. The Saudi Crown Prince agrees with us that the time is now. There is no other way.

And the deal? That’s something that Trump’s son-in-law and special Middle East adviser Jared Kushner has reportedly pursued with Bin Salman. It looks remarkably like a real estate transaction. Unsurprising, perhaps, given that the 36-year-old Kushner has no previous experience in diplomacy, but an awful lot in wheeling and dealing in the high-stakes world of New York property ventures.

It has been called “the sanctuary plan”. It involves the Palestinians surrendering some 50 per cent of the occupied West Bank to Israel. Palestinian cities and towns in the West Bank that are encircled by Israeli settlement projects would fall under the administrative control of Jordan. For their part, the Egyptians would agree to cede North Sinai to a new Palestinian entity contiguous with Gaza. The capital of this strange agglomeration would become a Palestinian town on the outskirts of Jerusalem, Abu Dis. Jerusalem whole and undivided would then become the capital of Israel.

To assist in fulfilling the plan the Israelis are providing military support to Egypt in its fight against Ansar Beit Al-Maqdis (ABM). In 2014, ABM pledged allegiance to the self-proclaimed Daesh caliph, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi. The peninsula was declared Wilayat Sinai, the Sinai Province of Al-Baghdadi’s now broken caliphate.

According to the New York Times, what it called a “secret alliance” has enabled the Israelis to carry out more than 100 air raids inside Egypt against ABM over the past two years. The Egyptians have denied the claim, but crucially the Israelis have neither confirmed nor denied it. Using unmarked drones and fighter jets with their markings concealed, the Israelis have been degrading the terrorists’ military capability, something that the Egyptian army has signally failed to do.

To return to the analogy of a real estate deal, if you are Jared Kushner and you want to evict problem tenants from a highly desired property with as little awkwardness as possible, you have to offer them something in return, and that something can’t be a property overrun with heavily armed gangsters. So the Israelis are doing their bit to help secure the neighbourhood.

For his part, President Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi desperately needs to keep both the Saudis and the Israelis on side as he struggles with a sluggish economy and disenchantment with his heavy-handed rule. Saudi cash to the tune of several hundreds of millions of dollars will help keep the economy and Sisi afloat. For the Egyptian President, giving up a troublesome North Sinai may seem a small price to pay.

For Mohammad Bin Salman, a solution to the Palestinian “problem” that he helps to bring about, one that is very favourable to Israel, means that he can then draw on the Israelis — who after all have nuclear arms — to stand up to Iran in the struggle for regional hegemony. Donald Trump can boast about pulling off the “greatest deal ever” and Jared Kushner will have salvaged something of his tarnished reputation. And the Egyptians now living in North Sinai? Well, that is a question to be sorted out down the road presumably.

In reality, the sanctuary plan is a madness, like ill-considered jottings on the back of a napkin. Ludicrous as it is, though, it must still have delighted Netanyahu. With little or no effort on his part, he had the Saudis on side backing a plan that even the most extreme right wing settler would find appealing. The cherry on the cake was Trump’s decision to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem with nothing demanded or given in return.

Of course a lot of questions remain. Why would the Egyptian President turn over more of his land, having already been roundly attacked for giving up two small islands in the Red Sea to the Saudis? What would cause the Palestinians to give up their rights in the West Bank and Jerusalem in return for a piece of Egypt riddled with terrorism?

In the evangelical euphoria surrounding the opening of the embassy in Jerusalem such questions count for nothing. Moreover, in the way in which the Saudis and much of the Arab world made small noises of sympathy rather than rise up in fury at the massacre in Gaza, the Palestinians can see which way the wind is blowing. Exploited by their own leaders, abandoned on all sides, they are truly the betrayed.

Offline waldo

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #140 on: May 26, 2019, 12:45:48 pm »
I find it ironic that you habitually criticize Rue for having long-winded posts, only to do the exact same thing.

wow! You're truly insightful... cause recent too long posts are simply a 'homage' to the masterRue!
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Offline waldo

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #141 on: May 26, 2019, 12:49:56 pm »
Israel’s exploitation of Palestinian resources is human rights violation, says UN expert

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GENEVA (18 March 2019) – Israel’s exploitation of natural resources in the Occupied Palestinian Territory for its own use is in direct violation of its legal responsibilities as an occupying power, says UN Special Rapporteur Michael Lynk.

“For nearly five million Palestinians living under occupation, the degradation of their water supply, the exploitation of their natural resources and the defacing of their environment, are symptomatic of the lack of any meaningful control they have over their daily lives,” Lynk said presenting a report to the Human Rights Council in Geneva.

“Israel’s policy of usurping Palestinian natural resources and disregarding the environment has robbed the Palestinians of vital assets, and means they simply cannot enjoy their right to development.

“Its approach to the natural resources of the Occupied Palestinian Territory has been to use them as a sovereign country would use its own assets, with vastly discriminatory consequences.”

The report, focusing on the impact of the occupation on the environment and natural resources, said people living under occupation should be able to enjoy the full panoply of human rights enshrined in international law, in order to protect their sovereignty over their natural wealth.

“However, Israeli practices in relation to water, extraction of other resources, and environmental protection, raise serious concerns.

“With the collapse of natural sources of drinking water in Gaza and the inability of Palestinians to access most of their water sources in the West Bank, water has become a potent symbol of the systematic violation of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory,” the Special Rapporteur said.

“As of 2017, more than 96% of Gaza’s coastal aquifer – the main source of water for residents of Gaza – has become unfit for human consumption. The reasons include over-extraction because of Gaza’s extremely dense population, contamination with sewage and seawater, Israel’s 12-year old blockade, and asymmetrical wars which has left Gaza’s infrastructure severely crippled and with a near-constant electricity shortage.

The Rapporteur said natural and mineral wealth from the Dead Sea, which is partly within the occupied West Bank, were being extracted by Israel for its own benefit, while the Palestinians were denied any access to those resources.

“States are obligated to ensure that the enjoyment of human rights is not affected by environmental harm, and to adopt legal and institutional frameworks that protect against any environmental damage that interferes with the enjoyment of human rights,” Lynk said.

There are serious concerns about Israel’s practice of disposing of hazardous waste in so-called “sacrifice zones” in the West Bank. The impact of Israel’s practices may be felt not only by Palestinians, but also by Israelis and others in the region, the Rapporteur said.

The report also questioned the ongoing use of excessive force by Israeli security forces against demonstrators in Gaza, and the near humanitarian catastrophe in the territory caused by the blockade.

Lynk also expressed fears about the fate of Palestinian families in East Jerusalem – nearly 200 of whom are at risk of forced eviction – and concern for human rights defenders facing increasing attacks on their credibility and pressure on funding.

“We must understand that these issues and violations block any visible path to Palestinian self-determination, and are instead leading to a darker future that heralds danger to both peoples,” he said.

ENDS

Mr. Michael Lynk was designated by the UN Human Rights Council in 2016 as the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967. The mandate was originally established in 1993 by the then UN Commission on Human Rights. Professor Lynk is Associate Professor of Law at Western University in London, Ontario, where he teaches labour law, constitutional law and human rights law. Before becoming an academic, he practiced labour law and refugee law for a decade in Ottawa and Toronto. He also worked for the United Nations on human rights and refugee issues in Jerusalem.

The Special Rapporteurs are part of what is known as the Special Proceduresof the Human Rights Council. Special Procedures, the largest body of independent experts in the UN Human Rights system, is the general name of the Council’s independent fact-finding and monitoring mechanisms that address either specific country situations or thematic issues in all parts of the world. Special Procedures experts work on a voluntary basis; they are not UN staff and do not receive a salary for their work. They are independent from any government or organization and serve in their individual capacity.

Investigate and Prosecute Pillage, Appropriation and Destruction of Palestinian Natural Resources

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On 26 October, 2018, Al-Haq, Al Mezan Center for Human Rights and the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) submitted, to the International Criminal Court (ICC), a 500-page file on alleged crimes committed by Israelis, in particular high-level Israeli officials, and individuals associated with corporations that are extracting and destroying Palestinian natural resources. The organisations provide a reasonable basis to believe that Israelis and private actors have committed the war crimes of extensive destruction and appropriation of property, pillage, and destruction and seizure of property.

The confidential communication provides factual information and legal analysis on the exploitation and destruction of Palestinian water, agricultural land, minerals, mud, stone, and oil. Mr. Shawan Jabarin, Al-Haq’s General Director, said that “in situations of armed conflict, the trade and business in natural resources have often been strong incentives for war and violence, and provided the finances necessary to maintain and prolong an armed conflict. The situation in Palestine is a case of such exploitation, in which Israelis and private actors have been deliberately and openly exploiting Palestinian natural resources for at least five decades. The exploitation of Palestinian natural resources by Israel, Israelis, as well as corporations, finances and thereby sustains and allows for the expansion of Israeli settlements, including by providing profitable employment to settlers and a secure living environment.”

Mr. Issam Younis, Al Mezan’s Director, also said that “Israel, acting as the Occupying Power has engaged in a deliberate and wide-scale exploitation and destruction of significant Palestinian resources in the OPT, as part of an overall policy to annex, exercise sovereignty, and ensure full non-consensual Israeli domination over Palestinian territory.”

Israel, along with and through Israeli and international non-state actors, including corporations, have unlawfully extracted Palestinian natural resources in the OPT, without the lawful consent of the occupied population therein, and solely for the benefit of the Israeli economy and population, including illegal Israeli settlements. Israel has also permitted and encouraged private actors to exploit Palestinian natural resources. Such private actors include business enterprises in agricultural and industrial settlements, as well as Israeli and multinational corporations. Israel’s unrestricted and unilateral exploitation of Palestinian natural resources will eventually lead to the depletion of Palestinian natural resources, to the detriment of the Palestinian occupied population and in violation of Israel’s customary international law obligations. Furthermore, the appropriation, destruction, seizure, and pillaging of Palestinian natural resources have serious social, economic, and environmental impact on the affected Palestinian communities, and notably infringe on Palestinians’ fundamental right to self-determination.

Mr. Raji Sourani, PCHR Director, said that “considering crimes committed in relation to the exploitation of Palestinian natural resources and the colonisation of the occupied territory, with complete impunity, the ICC Prosecutor must urgently open an investigation into the situation in Palestine.”

This is the sixth Article 15 communication to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, and it complements the file submitted to the Prosecutor in September 2017 concerning inter alia the transfer of Israeli settlers into the occupied territory, appropriation of Palestinian land, and forcible transfer of the protected Palestinian population.

Offline waldo

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #142 on: May 26, 2019, 12:54:17 pm »
Environmental justice, not dialogue, for Palestinians

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By Sanjidah Ahmed and Hadeel Abdelhy | 10/25/2018

We are writing regarding a troubling event held Thursday named “The Dialogue Project” hosted by J Street U Duke and Duke Environmental Alliance in conjunction with Arava Institute. We find Arava’s positioning of itself as “neutral” and its emphasis on bringing Palestinians and Israelis to have a dialogue about environmental issues to be intellectually dishonest and inherently violent.

For starters, Arava poses as a “neutral body” when this is clearly not the case. Arava receives funding from the Israeli government. In addition, Arava also has a partnership with Ben Gurion University of the Negev, a university based in Israel which provides an accelerated B.A. track for Israeli fighter pilots and grants special scholarships to students who directly participated in Israel’s brutal military attack on the Gaza Strip, which killed over 1,000 Palestinians. Even if we were to ignore these associations and believe Arava’s claim to so-called “neutrality,” we still have plenty of cause for concern.

A position of “neutrality” is violent. It is complicit in the existing order—an order which seeks to destroy and replace. Simply put, the settler-colonial project of Israel is one of the annihilation of Palestinian people and culture, partially constituted through the appropriation and brutal transformation of land and the environment. Arava’s “neutrality” actively “greenwashes” this reality by normalizing colonial devastation and making the colonial state seeming eco-friendly through the language of cooperation and dialogue.

For example, Arava claims that “the lack of water for people and nations will be a constant cause for further conflict.” The organization further claims that this “water-scarcity” is both part of the region’s natural geography as well as an inevitable consequence of climate change. However, Palestine is not water-scarce. In fact, Ramallah experiences more rainfall than London.

By appealing to the myth of water-scarcity, Arava purposely avoids addressing Israel’s monopoly on resources and its restriction of water to Palestinians for decades. Since Israel first occupied the West Bank in 1967, Israel has sought to control Palestinian access to water through water agreements that make Palestinians water-dependent on Israel. The Oslo Accords II in 1995 which were supposed to remain in force for only five years, set in place an agreement that provides for an unequal allocation of water sources, allowing Israel to use 80 percent and leaving only 20 percent for Palestinians. This agreement is still in place despite the fact that the population of Palestinians has nearly doubled since then.

Israel has exploited and exacerbated this disparity in manifold ways e.g. cutting off water to Palestinians during Ramadan, destroying water pipelines in the West Bank, seizing water tanks from Palestinians, and preventing Palestinians from developing water infrastructure. This state of affairs seems unlikely to be overturned anytime soon. In June 2017, a water agreement between the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Israel increased the amount of water that the PA can buy from Israel, thus further entrenching Palestinian reliance on Israel. This overwhelming power divide ensures that any dialogue fails to acknowledge the fundamental concept of water as a shared resource. Palestinians, lacking the power to negotiate this dependence away, can only negotiate the quota of water they receive from Israel.

Despite what Arava claims, supposed water-scarcity cannot be a site of common ground, as Israel does not suffer its consequences. In fact, Israelis consume four times more water per person than Palestinians. Meanwhile, Israel profits because Palestinians are forced to purchase water from Israel. The Palestinian and Israeli realities are polar opposites, not a shared struggle.

Beyond water, Israel has been systematically unleashing environmental violence on Palestinians since Israel’s inception. Just earlier last week, Israeli settlers chopped down a hundred olive trees in al-Mughayyir village in Ramallah (West Bank) continuing with its long-standing pattern of destruction. Between 1967 and 2015, Israel uprooted about 800,000 olive trees in Palestine. Due to the symbolic, cultural, and material importance of olive trees for Palestinians, Israelis have specifically targeted olive trees for destruction in a way that mirrors their targeted destruction of Palestinian people.

Yet another form of environmental violence weaponized against Palestinians is the outsourcing of toxic waste to Palestinian lands and bodies. Israel has “industrial zones” in its settlements in Palestine where they set less environmental regulations and provide financial incentives such as tax breaks and government subsidies for companies that wish to build waste treatment facilities in the West Bank. Additionally, in 1982, an Israeli court ordered the shutdown of Geshuri Industries, a pesticide and fertilizer company due to the harmful effects the pollution would have on Israeli citizens. Following Israel’s logic of apartheid and its de-facto categorization of Palestinians as sub-human, Geshuri Industries relocated from Kfar Saba in Israel to an area near Tulkarem in the West Bank where they could operate with impunity. In fact, a significant portion of Israel’s waste-treatment facilities, predominately treating waste produced by Israelis in Israel, is actually located in the West Bank, leaving the harm of the toxic pollutants and contaminants to be borne by Palestinians.

These examples are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Israel’s systematic devastation of Palestinian lands and people. In this context, Arava’s positioning of the environment as “common ground” is nonsensical. By remaining silent on these environmental assaults, whose environment is Arava claiming to protect?

Frankly, we find J Street U Duke and Duke Environmental Alliance’s celebration of this event as a “peacemaking event” to learn about Arava’s efforts to “loosen the tension between even the oldest of feuds” to be both ludicrous and shameful. We reject the premise that dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians can solve environmental problems when Israeli violence is responsible for Palestinian environmental degradation and unbearable living conditions. As we have clarified, this not a mere “feud.” The environmental degradation in Palestine is the result of Israel inflicting decades of environmental violence as a method of collective punishment to ensure the complete domination and annihilation of Palestinian people.

No dialogue between an oppressor and the oppressed will bring justice because dialogue implies parity. Dialogue invokes the vision of two equally responsible members of a conflict coming together to sit at the table to rationally talk things over. Dialogue locates the root cause of “conflict” in vague notions of “difference” that must be overcome by a sense of common humanity. The possibility of such a transcendence is absurd given the fact that the state of Israel is predicated upon the construction of this difference and a rule by difference, epitomized by the recently-passed Nation-State Law. As long as Israel continues to define itself this way, it will continue to perceive Palestinians as a threat that should be removed violently.

Difference itself cannot drive conflict. Difference becomes an issue when it is intentionally constructed, codified, and used to categorize the population and assign differential rights. Difference as problematic is the direct consequence of an ideological and material project of domination. By implying that difference (the very difference that Israeli rule is predicated upon) is the cause of violence, dialogue masks the real driver of not only violence but also environmental degradation in Palestine: settler-colonial occupation. This is a matter of power, not difference. Palestinians need justice, not dialogue.

Offline waldo

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #143 on: May 26, 2019, 01:11:07 pm »
Human Rights Council 38th Session - Side event: "Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory: Systemic Violations with Impunity"

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Geneva International Centre for Justice (GICJ) with International Organisation for the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (EAFORD), International-Lawyers.Org, and Euro-Med Monitor for Human Rights organised and participated in a side-event at the Thirty-Eighth Regular Session of the Human Rights Council. The event took place from 12h00 to 13h30 on 3rd July, 2018 in Room XXIII at the Palais des Nations.

Concept note of the side-event:

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Israel’s prolonged occupation of the Palestinian territory involves systematic human rights abuses, including collective punishment, routine use of excessive lethal force, and prolonged administrative detention without charge or trial. It builds and supports illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank, expropriating Palestinian land and imposing burdens on Palestinians but not on settlers, restricting their access to basic services and making it nearly impossible for them to build in much of the West Bank without risking demolition. Israel’s decade-long closure of Gaza made the lives of 1,9 million Palestinians living there unbearable. For that Gaza is described as the world’s largest open-air prison.

This side-event aims to bring to light the atrocities of the occupation, characterized by horrendous and unending human rights violations resulting in the continuous and systematic suffering of the Palestinian people. Through its constant non-cooperation with the United Nations System in general and international human rights mechanisms in particular, Israel has not only robbed the Palestinian people of their right to self-determination, but also repeatedly implements new and improved measures to deepen the suffering of the Palestinians. Our organizations thus call upon the international community to take a stand against this blatant and long-standing human rights catastrophe.

Special Guest: Mr. Michael Lynk:     Special Rapporteur on the situation of Human Rights Situation in the Palestinian Territory Occupied since 1967. Via Skype.

Speakers: Ms. Aroub Soubh:    TV program presenter, she is the official Media Spokesperson for the Jordanian coalition, My Nationality is the Right of My Family, and Consultant at the Euro-Mid Human Rights Monitor.

Ms. Daniela Donges:    Civil peace worker for Palestine, a former member of GICJ. She follows on the ground information concerning the situation in Palestine.

Ms. Eman Zuiter:    A Human Rights researcher who works with Geneva International Centre for Justice since 2016 as well as with the Euro-Med Monitor since 2015.

Moderator: Mr. Mutua Kobia:    Senior Human Rights Officer at Geneva International Centre for Justice, additional representative of EAFORD at the United Nations.

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Ms. Aroub Soubh: “The Blockade of Gaza as a form of Apartheid”

Ms. Aroub Soubh was the first speaker to start the discussion and began by enumerating that Apartheid is both territorial segregation as well as a ‘matrix of control’ imposed on a group of people for who they are.

She went on to explain that since the occupation began in 1967, the Palestinian people have lived in four so-called ‘domains’:

-    Civil law with special restrictions, governing Palestinians who live as citizens of Israel;

-    Permanent residency law governing Palestinians living in the city of Jerusalem;

-    Military law governing Palestinians living under conditions of belligerent occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip since 1967, including those in refugee camps;

-    Policy to preclude the return of Palestinians, whether refugees or exiles, living outside the territory under Israel’s control.

Following this, Ms. Soubh rightly termed the blockade of Gaza a humanitarian crisis, asserting that the State of Israel's restrictions on entry prevent the repairing of Gaza's sole power plant as well as of houses destroyed during Israeli offensives in the area. Israel continues to control entry to and exit from Gaza by land, sea and air, and has been subjecting Palestinians to a suffocating blockade, which constitutes an unprecedented form of collective punishment in stark violation of international humanitarian law.

Speaking about the economic collapse, she cited that Gaza’s economy has effectively been in recession since the beginning of the blockade, with the private sector receiving the largest share of losses due to the restrictions imposed by the Israeli authorities on the movement of businessmen and traders as well as many companies and private enterprises – which make up the only source of income for a large portion of Gaza population – being targeted.

Before providing some final recommendations, Ms. Soubh touched upon the electricity crisis and its ramifications, in that water and sanitation, sewage, healthcare, and education are severely and adversely affected. For hospitals in Gaza, constant instability of power supply only deteriorated the quality of the healthcare services available, with the high cost of running a generator forcing small businesses, especially startups, to close within a short period of time.

To conclude her comprehensive assessment of the blockade of the Gaza strip, she proposed the following recommendations:

-    First, to the State of Israel, to put an end to all forms of apartheid practices against the Palestinian civilian population and an unconditional end to the blockade on the Gaza Strip, as well as, compensation to all those who were affected.

-    To the Israeli government, to work in earnest to end its long-term occupation of the Palestinian territories as stipulated in UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

-    Finally, to the international community, urging it to exert effective pressure on Israel to immediately end its blockade of the Gaza Strip and its ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territory, as all it does is further fuel conflict and lead to unnecessary violence and escalation of tensions in the region.

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Ms. Daniela Donges: “Observations of Human Rights situation on the Ground and Laws that Entrench the Occupation”

Ms. Daniela Donges was the second speaker to take the floor and she started her presentation by noting that since 1946 Palestine is losing slowly and illegally its territory. Palestine is becoming more and more invisible on the map because of the illegal, brutal, and violent Israeli occupation. Israel is creating settlements in Palestine to fully control it.

For example, Israel constructed a wall with a military checkpoint in Al Walaja to isolate the village. Many residents became refugees. The creation of that wall is a violation of international Law.

Khan Al Ahmar is a village in the Jerusalem Governorate of the West Bank where people live in tents and huts. There are many Bedouins and children. The village is located between the Kfar Adumimm and the Israeli settlements of Ma’ale Adumim. There is a huge difficulty to access the school. The Palestinian ministry of education constructed a school in that area, but the Israeli Civil Administration ordered to demolish the school. Buildings were demolished in 2010 by Israel claiming that these buildings were illegal. In September 2012, the Israeli government had a plan to relocate residents to the Jordanian valley, but they strongly refused that plan.

Furthermore, there are laws that entrench the occupation:

1. Demolition orders against unauthorized structures 1539-2003

2. Law for the Regulation of Settlements 5777-2017

3. Order concerning the Removal of New Structures 1797-2018

4. Administrative Affaires Courts Law 5768-2018

During a discussion at the Knesset on 27 June 2017, the director of the Civil Administration Supervision Unit said that there are 500 movable structures in the administration’s warehouses confiscated from Palestinians. He stated that all it requires to dismantle and confiscate a movable structure is a formal statement by one of the supervision unit’s employees. There is no other administrative or legal procedure needed.

The Law for the regulation of settlements in Judea and Samaria, 5777-2017: The Knesset passed a law on 6 February 2017 legalizing those unauthorized settlements and giving settlers the right to remain in them.

Order concerning the removal of new structures (9 May 2018): The Israeli military published military order 1797. This new order allows the Israeli army’s “civil administration” to target and demolish Palestinian structures in area C within 96 hours, whatever may be the status of the land or the issuing of building permits. The new order aims at preventing international aid from supporting any legal action against future Israeli orders, which has proven quite successful in preventing or delaying illegal demolitions in the past.

Administrative Affairs Courts Law 5768 – 2018 prevents human rights organizations from flooding the Israeli court system with petitions against the demolition of buildings.

There is also a new law requiring NGOs to reveal any foreign funding. Palestinians in the West Bank are banned from attending and organizing a procession, assembly or vigil of 10 or more people for a political purpose. Anyone breaching the order faces imprisonment for up to 10 years and/or a hefty fine. Such threats and intimidation tactics against Palestinian activists eliminates the space for resistance in the political sphere even for those taking to the streets, loudly objecting to, for instance, the creation of the illegal Wall of Separation.

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Ms. Eman Zuiter: “Excessive Use of Force against Peaceful Protestors”

Ms. Eman Zuiter was the third speaker to take the floor and began her presentation by speaking about the Great March of Return. The peaceful civilian protests, which started on 30 March 2018, continue every Friday. It is formed to demand the end of 12 years of blockade and to enforce resolution 194 (the right of return). Israel used live and explosive bullets as well as toxic gas against those protesters.



•    Israel targeted the medical personnel on Gaza border fence. For example, they targeted Razan Al-Najjar who was a Paramedic. She was killed at the age of 21 with a bullet in the Chest while she was helping people who were injured.

•    Israeli soldiers were targeting the Press, which is totally illegal, and we saw a video on journalists who were killed by Israel. Among them Yassir Murtaja who was 30 years old and killed with a bullet in the abdomen.

•    Targeting of Children is the most terrifying and shameful crime. The story of the child Mohammad Ayoub who was merely in seventh grade was a real shock. While he was in the eastern border wall of Jabalia town in northern Gaza, he was killed with a bullet in the head. Mohammad did not have any weapon, not even a knife. 

The speaker mentioned several other reported killings and injuries of unarmed protesters who never posed a threat to the life of Israeli soldiers that were well fortified and at a distance. She also pointed out to the numerous grave breaches of essential Articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention concerning the prohibition of acts willfully causing great suffering or serious injury, as well as, other measures of brutality. Among the articles she highlighted are Article 32 relative to the prohibition of corporal punishment, torture, murder, etc, Article 33 relative to the prohibition of collective penalties, and Article 147 relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war.

However, week after week of the “Great Return March”, Israeli occupation forces continued to open fire at hundreds of Palestinians joining the demonstrations along the border of the Gaza Strip, and continued the practice of employing excessive and lethal force against unarmed protesters, journalists and paramedics, in violation of international human rights law.

The international community must denounce violations of international law and ensure accountability. It must urge Israel to respect the protesters’ legitimate exercise of their rights to freedom of assembly and association, and take concrete steps for the protection of civilians in the occupied Palestinian territory, including by calling for an end to the illegal occupation.

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Mr. Michael Lynk: “Can an Occupying Power become an Illegal Occupant if it abuses the Fundamental Principles that underly the modern Laws on Occupation?”

Mr. Michael Lynk, Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in the Palestinian Territory Occupied since 1967, was the final speaker to take the floor and began by announcing that his presentation would be addressing the question “Can an occupying power become illegal if it abuses the fundamental principles that underlie the modern laws on occupation?” His conclusion is that it can become illegal and his presentation would demonstrate this case under international law.

To begin with, he underlined the concept of prolonged occupation, which in numerous instances has been used to describe an illegal occupation. He noted that this concept could become a legal guise masking a de facto colonial exercise, annexation, conquest or other form of permanent rule. In light of this, he went on to describe the state of Israel as an occupying power under international law and the role and obligations it is obliged to follow under leading principles and the Geneva Conventions. Referring to his October 2017 report as Special Rapporteur to the United Nations at its General Assembly he argued that a four-part test could be administered to determine whether the status of an occupying power is illegal. A country that seeks to transform occupation into a claim of sovereignty is in violation of its obligations under international humanitarian law and hence acquires the status of illegal occupant. The four elements of the test he proposes are as follows:

i.    An Occupying Power cannot annex any of the Occupied Territory

International law scholars have noted the ‘no-annexation’ principle as a legally binding doctrine and under United Nations Security Council (UNSC) Resolution 242 (November 1967) the Security Council endorsed the principle of “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory” on several occasions neither by war nor by force. Thus, Israel’s de jure annexation of East Jerusalem in 1967 (by Cabinet decision) and 1980 (by a Knesset vote) is ipso facto, a grave breach of the laws of occupation, which the Security Council in August of 1980 censured in the strongest of terms and affirmed that these actions were in breach of international law and the annexation of Jerusalem was “null and void” and “must be rescinded forthwith”. However, Israel has remained non-compliant with all United Nations’ resolutions on the annexation of Jerusalem.

Furthermore, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in its 2004 Advisory Opinion cautioned that the Wall and settlement regime constitutes a fait accompli and de facto annexation. The West Bank Area C is under Israel’s complete control and settlers live under Israeli law in Jewish-only settlements that are expanding. This continued occupation over part or all of the Palestinian territory can only be explained as colonial ambition par excellence.

ii.    An Occupation is inherently temporary, and the Occupying Power must seek to end the occupation as soon as reasonably possible.

By definition, occupation is a temporary and exceptional situation where the Occupying Power assumes the role of de facto administrator of the territory until conditions allow for the return of territory to the sovereign. Due to prohibition against acquisition of territory by force the occupying power is prohibited from permanent rule or rule on an indefinite basis.

The 51-year-old Israeli occupation is without precedent or parallel in today’s world as instances of modern occupation that have adhered to strict principles of temporariness, non-annexation, trusteeship, and good faith have not exceeded 10 years. Israel itself cannot offer a compelling reason for this extraordinary length of occupation consistent with its obligation to end its rule as soon as reasonably possible and this intentionally forestalls any meaningful exercise of self-determination by the Palestinians.

iii.    During the Occupation, the Occupying Power is to act in the best interests of the people under Occupation.

Mr. Lynk noted the principle under international law that the occupying power is required, through its duration of occupation, to govern and act in the best interests of the people under occupation. This principle is observed in the 1907 Hague Regulations, the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention and international human rights instruments that provide further provisions that protect the lives, property, natural resources, institutions, civil life, fundamental human rights, and latent sovereignty of the people under occupation.

However, barriers and restrictions have resulted in mounting impoverishment and according to the World Bank and the United Nations, Palestinians in the West Bank endure inferior civil, legal and social conditions compared to Israeli settlers and suffer significant restrictions to their freedom of movement, denial of access to water and natural resources among other violations of their fundamental freedoms. In addition, these restrictions adversely affect the daily life of Palestinians in Gaza as well where over 60 percent of the population is reliant on humanitarian aid and more than 40 percent are unable to secure electrical power. As for East Jerusalem, the occupation has increasingly detached it from its traditional national, economic, cultural and family connections with the West Bank because of the Wall, the growing ring of settlements and related checkpoints, and the discriminatory permit regime. It is neglected by the Municipality in terms of services and infrastructure, the occupation has depleted its economy, and the Palestinians have only a small land area to build housing.

These instances lead to the conclusion that Israel is ruling the Palestinian territory as an internal colony and is committed to exploiting its land and resources, and is profoundly indifferent to the rights and best interests of the protected people under occupation, which is contrary to its obligations.

iv.    The Occupying Power must act in good faith

This principle is the “cardinal rule of treaty interpretation” in the international legal system and is an integral part of all legal relationships in modern international law. It requires states to carry out their duties and obligations in an honest, loyal, reasonable, diligent and fair manner with the aim of fulfilling the purposes of the legal responsibility, including an agreement or treaty. Conversely, the principle of good faith prohibits states from engaging in acts that would defeat the objective and purpose of the obligation.

An occupying power is required to govern the territory in good faith and this can be measured by its compliance with two obligations:

i)    Its conformity with the specific precepts of international humanitarian law and international human rights law applicable to an occupation;

ii)    Its conformity with any specific directions issued by the United Nations or other authoritative bodies pertaining to the occupation.

It has been deemed that Israel has breached many of the leading precepts of international humanitarian and human rights law throughout the occupation. Additionally, the prohibited use of collective punishment has been regularly employed by Israel through the demolition of Palestinian homes of families related to those suspected of terrorism or security breaches and extended closures of Palestinian communities. Freedom of movement is impaired and above all the entrenched and unaccountable occupation violates if not undermines the right of the Palestinians to self-determination.

Mr. Lynk pointed out that since 1967 the Security Council has adopted more than 40 resolutions critical of Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territory and which deal with the settlements, annexation of Jerusalem, denial of Palestinian human rights and Israel’s refusal to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention. The UN General Assembly and the Human Rights Council have also adopted several hundred similar resolutions.

He then brought to attention an important legal precedent in international law; namely, the influential Advisory Opinion on Namibia by the International Court of Justice in 1971, pointing out striking similarities. The one difference he noted was that South Africa’s rule of Namibia arose from a League of Nations Mandate whereas Israel’s occupation is governed by the laws of occupation found in the Fourth Geneva Convention.

In this consideration, Mr. Lynk pointed out five significant features in the 1971 International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruling concerning the colonial rule in Namibia to bear with in relation to the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

1)    The ICJ stated three core principles that all Mandatory holders must comply with:

a.    The Mandatory Power has no right of annexation of any of the mandate territory,

b.    It must act as a trustee for the well-being and development of the people in the mandate territory, and

c.    The Mandatory Power cannot introduce discriminatory laws and practices that disadvantage the peoples of the mandate.

2)    The principle of self-determination is the ultimate purpose of the Mandate.

3)    Deliberate and persistent violation of these core principles of the Mandate would amount to a fundamental breach of an international undertaking.

4)    Strict compliance with the protections of the Mandate for the benefit of the peoples of Namibia as long as it is governed by South Africa.

5)    The use of the “good faith” test to judge whether South Africa was in compliance with the governing principles of the Mandate.
International experts and scholars consider this a touchstone precedent for assessing and understanding the legal status of Israel’s continued occupation.

In conclusion, Mr. Lynk said that international law is the promise states make to one another and to their people that rights will be respected, protections will be enforced, agreements and obligations will be upheld, and peace with justice will be pursued. While noting earlier that the international community at large has completely failed in ending the occupation it nonetheless still has a crucial role to play in realizing the rights and self-determination of the Palestinian people, which can only be achieved with an end to the occupation. He noted that international law, along with the peoples of Palestine and Israel, have all suffered in the process.

To answer the fundamental question asked at the beginning of his presentation concerning the test as to whether a belligerent occupation remains lawful, he said that an occupier or mandatory power would cross the red line into illegality if they breach fundamental obligations as alien rulers and he then submitted as Special Rapporteur that Israel has crossed this red line. The international community now faces the challenge of assessing this analysis and if accepted will have to devise and employ appropriate diplomatic and legal steps that would completely and finally end the occupation.

In addition, as recommended in his October 2017 report the United Nations General Assembly should commission a comprehensive study on the legality of Israel’s continued occupation of the Palestinian territory and should then consider the advantages of seeking an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice on this very question.

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #144 on: May 26, 2019, 05:16:45 pm »
All good information to have here.

Thanks Rue and waldo for posting all of that.

Sources appreciated.

I try to keep in mind that in Israel, as in Canada and elsewhere, there are right wing and left wing voices: There are hawks who see war as the only strategy, until the enemy Is entirely vanquished, dispersed, destroyed ... and there are others who see diplomacy - honest dialogue, problem solving and compromise as the best strategy.

There are protests against Israeli militancy within Israel too.

We need to be able to hear all voices to understand this difficult situation.


« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 06:53:07 pm by Granny »
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Offline Rue

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #145 on: May 26, 2019, 08:16:43 pm »
All good information to have here.

Thanks Rue and waldo for posting all of that.

Sources appreciated.

I try to keep in mind that in Israel, as in Canada and elsewhere, there are right wing and left wing voices: There are hawks who see war as the only strategy, until the enemy Is entirely vanquished, dispersed, destroyed ... and there are others who see diplomacy - honest dialogue, problem solving and compromise as the best strategy.

There are protests against Israeli militancy within Israel too.

We need to be able to hear all voices to understand this difficult situation.

Thank you agreed. In spite of Waldo still trying to use this thread to mock me , to you Granny I acknowledge the issues he raised as serious issues that need to be addressed. 
You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #146 on: May 27, 2019, 08:09:25 am »
 Yes, there is an Israeli 'left' ... or at least centre.

May 25 2019
In the face of Netanyahu's threat to democracy, Israel's opposition makes rare show of unity:
At Saturday's protest, the speakers were more impassioned than usual, the messages sharper, and the listeners angrier. It could herald a new era in Jewish-Arab relations

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/.premium-in-the-face-of-bib-s-threat-to-democracy-opposition-showed-a-rare-display-of-unity-1.7284444

An overflow crowd of close to 100,000, which exceeded the most optimistic expectations, came to see the leaders of the opposition parties standing together and speaking in one voice, after trying to avoid each other like the plague during the election campaign.

The demonstration ended the post-election period in which the opposition seemed to be in a coma. Despite the emerging certainty that Netanyahu was about to achieve immunity from prosecution by depriving the Supreme Court of its authority to annul the move — by depriving it of judicial review altogether — his critics displayed an inexplicable apathy, now seemingly dispelled by a single demonstration.

But the importance of the demonstration wasn’t the fact it was held, but rather in the tense 24 hours that preceded it — when a vigorous left-wing campaign on social media compelled the Kahol Lavan organizers to issue a last-minute invitation to Odeh to participate. The vision of a joint Jewish-Arab front — the long-held dream of the Israeli left — suddenly came to life, at least for one night.

It was Odeh’s appearance that electrified the crowd, convincing hundreds if not thousands of left-wing activists not to boycott it because of his absence. The endemic division of the Israeli left, a product of that political wing’s well-known purism and fractiousness as well as the inherent tension in the relations between Arabs and Jews, dissipated into thin air.
...
... Saturday night’s demonstration can be seen as a defibrillator that might resuscitate the Israeli opposition. It could revive hope in a center-left that was left despondent by Netanyahu’s victory in the April 9 election. It could, despite the obstacles, herald a new era in Jewish-Arab relations, which could have far-reaching ramifications for politics and society as a whole.


My purpose in starting this thread was to give space to Jewish and Palestinian voices who promote dialogue and diplomatic solutions to the Israel-Palestine dilemma, and Canadians who support them.
My purpose in this post is to show that Israel itself epitomizes the sharp left-right divides that plague Canada too.

It is not true that to support Israel one has to assume a hawkish position that blames, denigrates and dehumanizes Palestinians to justify occupation and violence against them.

We don't have to assume that the voice of the hawkish right represents all of Israel. It doesn't. It only represents the voice of Netanyahu and the hawkish parties now in power.

There are other voices in Israel, other parties, perhaps best described as 'centre' rather than 'left', divided and not in power now but representing the views of  significant numbers of Israeli people.

There is never one voice, even the one in power,  that represents all Canadians.
There is never one voice, even the one in power, that represents all Israelis nor all of the Jewish diaspora.

IMO, our government can support Israel best if we recognize that we should not interfere in their politics by taking a position that aligns us only with parties in power, but recognize and respect that there's a variety of perspectives on solutions as there is in Canada.

When Trudeau speaks with Netanyahu's voice, he disrespects Israeli democracy, imo.
When Trudeau tells Canadians how we can and cannot express ourselves (eg, telling us we cannot boycotting Israeli settlement goods!), he disrespects Canada's democracy.

So there's my agenda:
It isn't about taking a particular side in the Israel-Palestine issue: It's about the right to do so.

All views in Israel, Palestine and their respective diasporas deserve a voice.
All views in Canada deserve a voice.

In Canada, the line is drawn at 'Inciting or promoting hatred', a high bar that does not interfere with speaking or acting with our conscience.
Naive, arrogant and malleable (corruptible) Trudeau disrespected that.

This thread is not specifically about the Palestinian agenda, or the agendas of Israelis of Jews in Canada and elsewhere.
It is about the rights of Canadians to speak and act in dissent against governments.

When we stop dissenting, we have given up democracy.
Democracy is not something we 'have'.
Democracy is something we have to protect everyday.


Because every political leader will try to violate and degrade democracy by taking a chunk of our power away from us and adding it to his.
We cannot naively expect politicians to protect our democracy for us.
We have to protect our democracy from politicians.

Trudeau's response to Israeli government pressure about BDS should have been: Canadians act as they see fit. I can't tell them how to think, speak or act.
Participating in BDS is not against the law. It's not Trudeau's business to tell us how to think, speak and act.

We're not all two-faced Liberal opportunists, and we don't have to act like them just because they have a tenuous grasp on a fake majority in parliament. Lol
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 11:14:47 am by Granny »

Offline Rue

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #147 on: May 27, 2019, 12:08:45 pm »

Yes, there is an Israeli 'left' ... or at least centre.


My purpose in starting this thread was to give space to Jewish and Palestinian voices who promote dialogue and diplomatic solutions to the Israel-Palestine dilemma, and Canadians who support them.

My purpose in this post is to show that Israel itself epitomizes the sharp left-right divides that plague Canada too.

It is not true that to support Israel one has to assume a hawkish position that blames, denigrates and dehumanizes Palestinians to justify occupation and violence against them.

We don't have to assume that the voice of the hawkish right represents all of Israel. It doesn't. It only represents the voice of Netanyahu and the hawkish parties now in power.

It isn't about taking a particular side in the Israel-Palestine issue: It's about the right to do so.[/b]
All views in Israel, Palestine and their respective diasporas deserve a voice.
All views in Canada deserve a voice.

In Canada, the line is drawn at 'Inciting or promoting hatred', a high bar that does not interfere with speaking or acting with our conscience.
Naive, arrogant and malleable (corruptible) Trudeau disrespected that.

This thread is not specifically about the Palestinian agenda, or the agendas of Israelis of Jews in Canada and elsewhere.

It is about the rights of Canadians to speak and act in dissent against governments.[/b]

When we stop dissenting, we have given up democracy.

Democracy is not something we 'have'.

Democracy is something we have to protect everyday.

Participating in BDS is not against the law.

We're not all two-faced Liberal opportunists,

On a serious note none of my responses or any other responses have  contested the above points.

There are a few who will only focus on one side of these disputes.

I was active in a peace network when I was young of Palestinians, Muslim, Jewish Bahaii and Christian students.

I am now involved in some inter faith groups. Most of us transcend religious ideology and are against terrorism and want a
two state solution. When we discuss the issues we avoid doing so with people who have partisan agenda.


I will also tell you this-please do not literally assume what any Middle East politician says. They engage in what is called meta communication which provides different meanings from the same words, one for their audience, one for their foes. There are many code words used that also signal politicians and terrorists and military on the other side or with their own allies or fellow terrorists.


A lot of what Netanyahu says has one meaning to Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah and Iran, another to the PA, Egypt or Jordan or Saudi Arabia.


Mr. Abbas right now is powerless. Hamas has rendered him powerless on the West Bank to do anything. A lot of his language is used to show WSest Bank  Palestinians he is as tough on Israel as Hamas.


Whether Netanyahu or Abbas literally mean some of the things they same is probably not accurate. They do a lot of signaling and posturing.


The PA's biggest enemy and threat to existence is not Israel its Hamas and Hezbollah. Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia are closer to Israeli state policies on how to deal with Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, and for that matter Turkey and Iran than you think.


Palestinians are caught again in a large battle between Saudi Arabia and Iran using them to fight each other.


The Palestinian terror cells are just as much a threat and considered an enemy  to all those countries and Iraq, Lebanon and Syria as they are Israel.

Palestinians have always been used as pawns by the Arab League for proxy wars against themselves. More Palestinians have been killed by fellow Muslims in these nations than Israelis.

Palestinians are despised in the Arab League nations and considered similar to the way Jews were in Europe prior to WW2.

As for internal Israeli politics it has every ideology from extreme left to extreme right and then some.Likud has some very right wing rigid politicians and some doves as well. Some right wing Israeli parties I myself consider very very problematic to lasting peace as they are not just anti Palestinian but anti Jewish as they define Jewish.

There are no good or bad guys. Most Israelis if you take a poll still want a two state solution while most Palestinians when polled do not.

One of the reasons for that is that moderate Muslims and Palestinians move out of the Middle East as they are threatened by Muslim and Palestinian extremists and considered traitors for wanting peace with Israel.

What is annoying for me Granny is when someone who does not know me or Israelis presumes we hate Palestinians or need  to be lectured about their conflict. They have lived it. They will resolve it. The best thing you can do is see them both as equals, both with the identical problems, and both in need of the same respect and need for peace and security.

Now you ask me Granny I think the key issues which know one understands are water and the environment of the West Bank. Both need immediate help if anyone is to continue living there.

Also believe this, I was spit on in the face by both sides equally. I also saw how people on both sides die equally when a bomb goes off and Granny that is a **** poor way to learn about equality but I did and I have said that on this forum. Nothing humiliates and makes one realize how fragile life is and how stupid and useless political rhetoric is until you see the innocent die and how when they are dead and blown up they smell and look the same.

This is why I have special deference to soldiers. They are the last line before humans kill each other and we blame them for the failure of politicians and humans to get along when they are only the symptom not the cause.

I was a volunteer. I cleaned potatoes, dug ditches, unclogged toilets, cleaned feet ful of worms and athletes foot or pulled parasites out of wounds or dealt with spider bites or dog bites or rate bites. I am no real soldier just a shmuck who volunteered to try make a tiny part of that conflicted land humane. No Zionist taught me to hate Muslims or Palestinians but instead taught me to learn their language, culture and history. None of them who survived the holocaust who went on to fight that I know of did so because they wanted to and I know them-I know their nightmares, I know their regrets. Soldiers who defend do not contrary to belief do so because they hate.

I know Egyptian soldiers who surrendered in the Sinai because they had no water to oncoming Israeli tanks. They ran to the Israelis for water.

I do  know in Jordan as I have been there that Palestinians do not like Jordanians and vice versa. Its tense. Jordanians can hate or like Israelis as well. There is no black and white stereotype. I was in Beirut before it blew up. Some hated me for being Jewish others could have cared less.

In Egypt I know certain neighbourhoods in Alexandria and Cairo where being a Jew or Christian could get your throat slit and yet I know Egyptians who could care less I am Jewish and just want to know if I will pay them to drive in their Taxi. They are only to glad to explain their culture. They don't dwell on Moses nor do I.
You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #148 on: May 27, 2019, 12:53:47 pm »
All good information to have here.

Thanks Rue and waldo for posting all of that.

Sources appreciated.

I try to keep in mind that in Israel, as in Canada and elsewhere, there are right wing and left wing voices: There are hawks who see war as the only strategy, until the enemy Is entirely vanquished, dispersed, destroyed ... and there are others who see diplomacy - honest dialogue, problem solving and compromise as the best strategy.

There are protests against Israeli militancy within Israel too.

We need to be able to hear all voices to understand this difficult situation.

This is a fair and insightful post regarding the complexity and different narratives contained in the different sides of this conflict.  Thank you for posting this.  This is the kind of thinking that will get all of the sides closer to a solution of the problems.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #149 on: May 27, 2019, 01:08:37 pm »
I will now try provide some information as to the settlement disputes. I appreciate because of its complexity it is lengthy and so Granny or Waldo will not read it but it will show why Granny is focusing on issues without understanding how they evolved and try explain why they have come about and how they are not as simple as she claims:

Appreciate the arguments, but these are all pro-Israel claims from a pro-Israel source, that's not trying to be objective.

Settlements on the West Bank seem, to me, a kind of colonial mission creep to establish more land and control over the West Bank.  That most of these settlements are on unused land or close to the green line doesn't change the fact that the West bank should be Palestinian territory according to any partition plan drawn up, and the building of these settlements clearly harms any peace prospects as it provokes and angers the Palestinians.

Netanyahu was clear in his last election promises that if he were elected he would ensure there would be no 2-state solution agreement.  He's not a man of peace, he's a hardliner who is dedicated to Israel taking control of all of what is seem as historical Israel territory at the expense of Palestinians, and these settlements are a tool for him to achieve that.  There's a reason him and Obama had friction in their relationship, and it takes a lot to get on the bad side of Obama.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/16/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-palestinian-state/index.html
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 01:44:57 pm by Poonlight Graham »
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley