Author Topic: International Jewish Voices  (Read 2128 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #240 on: June 27, 2019, 10:26:50 am »
Omni ... Granny

The two of you provide examples of how you insult Jews then justify the insults sayng because they disagree with you about knowing their place in the world they should be belittled.

That makes the two of you examples of people who use forums to shit on things and why the forum now except your clique has gone.

Congrats. In the name of progressive leftism you engage the forum as a urinal.

ambassadorRue... has spoken!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 10:29:16 am by waldo »

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #241 on: June 27, 2019, 12:25:50 pm »
Omni I would suggest this thread and you have not responded tongue original issue it was started for and your clique is now using it as a general piss on Trump thread or piss on anyone you think disagrees with you. Granny's remarks meander and make no sense. It appears she continues to lecture on what a Jew is and if she thinks they agree with her they are good but if they don, t they are bad.

The two of you provide examples of how you insult Jews then justify the insults sayng because they disagree with you about knowing their place in the world they should be belittled.

That makes the two of you examples of people who use forums to shit on things and why the forum now except your clique has gone.

Congrats. In the name of progressive leftism you engage the forum as a urinal.

Rue, Remember to take your personal attacks to the Rules thread, please.
Not welcome in an adult discussion.
There's a good boy.

Offline Omni

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #242 on: June 27, 2019, 12:41:49 pm »
Omni I would suggest this thread and you have not responded tongue original issue it was started for and your clique is now using it as a general piss on Trump thread or piss on anyone you think disagrees with you. Granny's remarks meander and make no sense. It appears she continues to lecture on what a Jew is and if she thinks they agree with her they are good but if they don, t they are bad.

The two of you provide examples of how you insult Jews then justify the insults sayng because they disagree with you about knowing their place in the world they should be belittled.

That makes the two of you examples of people who use forums to shit on things and why the forum now except your clique has gone.

Congrats. In the name of progressive leftism you engage the forum as a urinal.

You are familiar with the name Netanyahu aren't you? "International Jewish voices" Even you should be able to connect the dots despite your meanderings.

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #243 on: July 01, 2019, 09:38:10 am »
Israel settlements funded by US Duty Free tycoons:
The Falic family, owners of the chain of Duty Free Americas shops, funds settler groups in occupied West Bank.
https://aje.io/eetky
An investigation by the Associated Press news agency has found that the family has donated at least $5.6m to settler organisations in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem over the past decade, funding synagogues, schools and social services as well as far-right causes considered extreme even in Israel.

"Far-right foreign donors are a pillar of the settlement enterprise," said Peace Now, an Israeli anti-settlement watchdog group.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 09:50:06 am by Granny »

Offline wilber

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #244 on: July 02, 2019, 09:39:27 pm »
Israel settlements funded by US Duty Free tycoons:
The Falic family, owners of the chain of Duty Free Americas shops, funds settler groups in occupied West Bank.
https://aje.io/eetky
An investigation by the Associated Press news agency has found that the family has donated at least $5.6m to settler organisations in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem over the past decade, funding synagogues, schools and social services as well as far-right causes considered extreme even in Israel.

"Far-right foreign donors are a pillar of the settlement enterprise," said Peace Now, an Israeli anti-settlement watchdog group.


Not surprising, Irish Americans were also the biggest supporters of the IRA during the troubles.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #245 on: July 03, 2019, 02:52:29 pm »
Not surprising, Irish Americans were also the biggest supporters of the IRA during the troubles.

These are supporters of illegal Israeli settlements.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 02:55:41 pm by Granny »

Offline wilber

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #246 on: July 03, 2019, 02:58:16 pm »
These are supporters of illegal Israeli settlements.
And Irish Americans were supporters of bombing pubs, tube stations and other public places.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #247 on: July 03, 2019, 07:36:55 pm »
And Irish Americans were supporters of bombing pubs, tube stations and other public places.

You're right.
To defend their homeland.

They weren't invading.

Offline wilber

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #248 on: July 03, 2019, 08:35:40 pm »
You're right.
To defend their homeland.

They weren't invading.


The IRA carried out terrorist attacks in Northern Ireland and Britain. Most of their victims were other Irishmen and their two biggest arms suppliers were the US and Gaddafi's Libya. Since the Provos have been disbanded, the biggest threat to the people of Ireland has been Brexit.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #249 on: July 09, 2019, 01:50:24 am »
Purging the Nakba. Or how an Israeli security agency takes on a monstrosity, the truth

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/07/israeli-security-monstrosity/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=israeli-security-monstrosity&utm_source=Mondoweiss+List&utm_campaign=79ad8a1ad0-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b86bace129-79ad8a1ad0-398410253&mc_cid=79ad8a1ad0&mc_eid=e99061f043

As a report by Israeli NGO Akevot and reporter Hagar Shezaf shows, one of Israel’s most notorious security apparatus, DSDE, has been going through official archives for almost two decades and removing “delicate” documents from them, particularly those recording events during the Nakba.

I have a feeling It's important to distribute some historical accounts of the Nakba that may be lost.
The children were killed by smashing of their skulls with sticks.


Quote
Misterioso on July 8, 2019, 10:50 am
@bcg, et al

“Survival of the fittest”
By Ari Shavit Haaretz, Haaretz, January 8, 2004
https://www.haaretz.com/1.5262454

Ari Shavit interviews Benny Morris

EXCERPT:
“According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?”

“Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field – they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village – she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.

“The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

“That can’t be chance. It’s a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres.”


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Misterioso on July 8, 2019, 10:55 am
More horrors for the record:

THE MASSACRE AT Al-DAWAYIMA
On October 28/48, as part of Operation Yoav, the prosperous and mainly agricultural Palestinian village of al-Dawayima was captured “without a fight” by the 89th Commando Battalion of the Israel Defence Forces’ 8th Brigade. An Israeli soldier eyewitness described what then happened: “‘[First the IDF] killed about 80-100 [male] Arabs, women and children. The children they killed by breaking their heads with sticks. There was not a house without dead. The remaining Arabs were then closed off in houses ‘without food and water,’ as the village was systematically razed. ‘One commander ordered a sapper to put two old women in a certain house…and to blow up the house with them. The sapper refused…. The commander then ordered his men to put in the old women and the evil deed was done. One soldier boasted that he had raped a woman and then shot her. One woman with a new-born baby in her arms was employed to clear the courtyard where the soldiers ate. She worked a day or two. In the end they shot her and her baby.'” (Benny Morris, Birth of The Palestinian Problem, pp. 222-23)

Also, during their murderous rampage in al-Dawayima Israeli soldiers slaughtered seventy-five elderly men in the village mosque where they had gone to pray. (John Quigley, Palestine and Israel…p. 85) During an interview with the Israeli daily Hadashot in 1984, the village mukhtar recalled: “The people fled, and everyone they saw in the houses, they shot and killed. They also killed people in the streets. They came and blew up my house….” (Professor Walid Khalidi, Harvard, All That Remains, p. 215)

“The mukhtar also said that about thirty-five families (including some expelled from another village) were hiding in caves outside the village and when Israeli troops discovered them, ‘They told them to come out and get into line and start to walk. And as they started to walk, they were shot by machine guns from two sides…. We sent people there that night, who collected the bodies, put them into a cistern and buried them.'” (ibid) (In 1984, the account given by the mukhtar was confirmed by Israeli journalists who visited the site and found human skeletal remains) (ibid)

The Israeli soldier eyewitness explained why in his view, the mass murders took place: “cultured officers…had turned into base murderers and this not in the heat of battle…but out of a system of expulsion and destruction. The less Arabs remained – the better. This principle is the political motor for the expulsions and the atrocities.” (Benny Morris, Birth…pp. 222-23;

“’There was no battle and no resistance (and no Egyptians). The first conquerors killed from eighty to a hundred Arabs [including] women and children. The children were killed by smashing of their skulls with sticks. Is it possible to shout about Deir Yassin and be silent about something much worse?’”

For the first time ever, a letter quoting one of the Israeli soldiers who were part of the Al-Dawayima massacre in October 1948 was published in full in 2016:

“On Friday, February 5th 2016, Haaretz published an article in Hebrew by Israeli historian Yair Auron, which covers one of the biggest massacres of 1948. The massacre is of Al Dawayima, west of Al-Khalil (which is often referred to as Hebron). In a 2004 interview with Haaretz, Israeli historian Benny Morris refers to this as a massacre of ‘hundreds.’

“After the massacre, a letter was sent to the editor of the leftist affiliated newspaper Al-Hamishmar, but never published. As Auron notes, there are still many archives of the time which are classified. Auron also states that there was an investigation that was never concluded and ‘died out’ as a massive amnesty was provided to military personnel in February 1949.

“This is a very exhaustive article, but I found it useful enough to translate this letter in full on its own. The letter, which first ‘disappeared,’ was provided to Auron by historian Benny Morris. Although these matters have been referred to in passing in historical summaries, the letter has never been published before in full.

“The letter is brought forth by a member of the MAPAM leftist party, S. Kaplan, who got the letter of testimony from the soldier. It is written to Eliezer Peri, editor of Al Hamishmar, and dated 8th November 1948 (18 days after the massacre):

“To comrade Eliezer Peri, good day,
“Today I have read the editorial of “Al Hamishmar” where the question of our army’s conduct was aired, the army which conquers all but its own desires.

“A testimony provided to me by an officer which was in [Al] Dawayima the day after its conquering: The soldier is one of ours, intellectual, reliable, in all 100%. He had confided in me out of a need to unload the heaviness of his soul from the horror of the recognition that such level of barbarism can be reached by our educated and cultured people. He confided in me because not many are the hearts today who are able to listen.

“There was no battle and no resistance (and no Egyptians). The first conquerors killed from eighty to a hundred Arabs [including] women and children. The children were killed by smashing of their skulls with sticks. There was not a house without dead. The second wave of the [Israeli] army was a platoon that the soldier giving testimony belongs to.

“In the town were left male and female Arabs, who were put into houses and were then locked in without receiving food or drink. Later explosive engineers came to blow up houses. One commander ordered an engineer to put two elderly women into the house that was to be blown up. The engineered refused and said he is willing to receive orders only from his [own] commander. So then [his] commander ordered the soldiers to put the women in and the evil deed was performed.

“One soldier boasted that he raped an Arab woman and afterwards shot her. An Arab woman with a days-old infant was used for cleaning the back yard where the soldiers eat. She serviced them for a day or two, after which they shot her and the infant. The soldier tells that the commanders who are cultured and polite, considered good guys in society, have become vile murderers, and this occurs not in the storm of battle and heated response, but rather from a system of expulsion and destruction. The fewer Arabs remain – the better. This principle is the main political motive of [the] expulsions and acts of horror which no-one objects to, not in the field command nor amongst the highest military command. I myself was at the front for two weeks and heard boasting stories of soldiers and commanders, of how they excelled in the acts of hunting and ‘fucking’ [sic]. To fu** an Arab, just like that, and in any circumstance, is considered an impressive mission and there is competition on winning this [trophy].”

Enough said.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 03:38:05 am by Granny »

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #250 on: July 10, 2019, 01:16:30 pm »
I want to emphasize that I started this thread upon becoming aware of the Canadian group, Independent Jewish Voices, to share their messages and learn from them myself.
It's been a shocking and eye-opening experience, both the brutality of the Israeli government and military, and the inhumanity of many Israeli people.
“There has always been a lot of racially based segregation in Israel, but it was done quietly, mostly out of view in rural communities and concealed with ostensibly neutral language so that such policies would not arouse scrutiny or criticism,” he told Middle East Eye.

“But now the discrimination is moving centre-stage, into the big cities. It is being done transparently, even proudly. It is a sign of the right’s ever-greater confidence.”


https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/entry-ban-israeli-city-park-provokes-apartheid-warnings


Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #251 on: July 20, 2019, 03:13:00 pm »
From 100 yards, Israeli sniper shoots 9 year old Palestinian boy in the head.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-the-protest-dispersed-then-an-israeli-sniper-shot-a-9-year-old-boy-in-the-head-1.7542674
Although the focal point of the weekly demonstration in town was not nearby – the soldier took aim, fired and hit the child in the head.

Israel is a very sick place.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #252 on: July 20, 2019, 03:49:48 pm »
Israel is a very sick place.

I think politics of identity can make normally good people do and think terrible and hateful things.

“Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.” - Richard Nixon
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Granny

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #253 on: July 22, 2019, 01:33:44 pm »
I think politics of identity can make normally good people do and think terrible and hateful things.

“Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.” - Richard Nixon

II don't consider 'tricky Dicky' Nixon an oracle of wisdom, but it's very true that holding hatred in your heart destroys your soul.

Israel is a country. It isn't possible to hate 'a country'. It would be the people of that country who may be targets for hatred.

I do know that hardline white supremacists hold hatred for Jewish people everywhere, including Jewish Israelis, and thus Israel itself. But they also hold hatred for all non-Aryans, all people of color.

But for many people, Jews and not, it isn't about hatred of people. It's great concern about the actions of the current Israeli government towards the Palestinisn people. It's the dehumanizing of Palestinian people, to the point where ... an Israeli soldier, sniper, knowing he will face no consequences because his government supports such actions ... would consciously scope, aim and fire at the head of a 9 year old Palestinian boy who is just standing in his friend's doorway, involved in no protest, doing nothing but being a kid.

That's simply despicable. And a state (Israel) that supports and encourages that deserves to be sanctioned by the international community.

The boycott, divest and sanction movement against Israel is quite valid, imo, and is certainly not hatred or anti-semitism.



Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: International Jewish Voices
« Reply #254 on: July 22, 2019, 03:47:21 pm »
It's the dehumanizing of Palestinian people, to the point where ... an Israeli soldier, sniper, knowing he will face no consequences because his government supports such actions ...

That's simply despicable. And a state (Israel) that supports and encourages that deserves to be sanctioned by the international community.

That's assuming a lot. I don't know if the Israeli gov supports that, I doubt it, i would hope the soldier gets severely reprimanded.  Not sure what happens in these cases.

Quote
The boycott, divest and sanction movement against Israel is quite valid, imo, and is certainly not hatred or anti-semitism.

The problem with the BDS movement is that it's so selective.  There are no BDS movements against China, Iran, Russia, and a long list of other regimes that are as bad or often worse than Israel in terms of human rights.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.