Author Topic: Global Darkening Crisis  (Read 1392 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2017, 02:48:39 pm »
There are lots of idiots on both sides of the debate. That does not mean that every person skeptical of the overheated claims of alarmists is necessarily wrong or unreasonable.

define "alarmists"

define "overheated claims"

Offline TimG

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2017, 03:17:23 pm »
You are right there has to be a proper perspective and balance put into the debate which sometimes I admit is lost as this issue triggers primal fear of survival for some which can cloud judgement.
I would be a lot less concerned about climate policy if so much of it was not pointless exercises in virtue signalling. IMO, a sane CO2 mitigation would have the following elements:

1) Accept that wind/solar cannot replace base load - it can only supplement;
2) Accept that base load options depend on geography. Some places can use hydro but others have no choice but to use coal or gas.
3) No reductions targets unless they can be met by making real reductions with tech that is economic today - i.e. no emission trading scams, no targets that cannot be met without imaginary tech.


« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 03:19:09 pm by TimG »

Offline waldo

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2017, 03:41:36 pm »
base load strawman!... notwithstanding traditional baseload attachments speak to nuclear & coal

now, without actually getting into the meat of just what/where renewables have been able to challenge your implicit baseload myth... step up and speak to the supposed climate policy you allude to. Surely you're not just making shyte up again, right? 

Offline JBG

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2018, 07:06:23 am »
good on ya for referencing the IPCC! By the by, do you have an IPCC 'money-quote' to align with your most generalized statement? And which RCP are you presuming to leverage, hey - RCP8.5?  ;D Care to speak to all the other aspects of impact/risk attached to RCP8.5... I mean, c'mon, don't just stop with water availability!

most pointedly, that increased water availability won't be uniform, with large population bases subject to water limitations/constraints:

[ximg]https://i.imgur.com/oM8B9NN.png[/imgx ]

given your emphasis on population increase and your forever "adapt-R-Us-Only" policy push, just how do you propose the global community of nations will respond to projections of an increased displacement of people associated with higher exposure to extreme weather events... to increased risks of violent conflicts driven by poverty and economic shocks? The U.S. Pentagon and intelligence community certainly acknowledge their concerns in this regard - what's the TimG_adapt-R-Us policy in this regard, hey?
With imgur, a photo site as your apparent source I question your logic. I was going to question the fact that all of these climate alarmists rely on weather changes in inaccessible areas with little or no historical data. Thus we have to take the word of the "scientists" as to the quality of the proxy data. Show me any persistent warming in a major temperate zone city where there is data.
"HUR HUR HUR! You tell 'em, Big Daddy!"

 -Trumptards.
When all else fails, bash Trump, your latest dog whistle.
no targets that cannot be met without imaginary tech.
The point of the unmeetable targets is to trigger the obligation to fund the "Climate Adjustment Fund." This fund funnels money to Third World leaders to help with adjustment to climate change. Does anyone in their right mind think that Kabila, Madura, Castro or Mugabe are going to use the money for constructive purposes?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 07:11:43 am by JBG »
Trump - Watch what he does, not how he says it.

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Offline waldo

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2018, 01:20:05 pm »
I was going to question the fact that all of these climate alarmists rely on weather changes in inaccessible areas with little or no historical data. Thus we have to take the word of the "scientists" as to the quality of the proxy data. Show me any persistent warming in a major temperate zone city where there is data.

you've already shown your ignorance on this point on the, "other board"... and you've had your azzz handed to you in that regard. Revel in your 'fringe of the fringe view' that surface temperature records and underlying data methodologies are a global conspiracy focused on artificially crafting a global warming meme!

When all else fails, bash Trump, your latest dog whistle.

clearly you don't understand the term and its usage

The point of the unmeetable targets is to trigger the obligation to fund the "Climate Adjustment Fund." This fund funnels money to Third World leaders to help with adjustment to climate change. Does anyone in their right mind think that Kabila, Madura, Castro or Mugabe are going to use the money for constructive purposes?

clearly you don't understand choose not to understand the administrative mechanics of the fund

Offline MH

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2018, 03:39:53 pm »
Tim G as you know I am probably on the other side of the debate on this one

What 'other side' ?  This is a dullard's response. 

There are many questions:

A: Is warming happening ?
B: Is it likely human caused ?
C: What should the response be ?

Anybody with half a clue who follows these things would understand that.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2018, 04:18:44 pm »
When all else fails, bash Trump, your latest dog whistle.

I'm not even exaggerating. That's what he wrote on twitter last week.
Quote
"In the East, it could be the COLDEST New Year’s Eve on record. Perhaps we could use a little bit of that good old Global Warming that our Country, but not other countries, was going to pay TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS to protect against. Bundle up!"

"HUR HUR HUR why we gonna fight global warming when it's cold outside amirite???"

He's a smart man, a very smart man, and his followers are very smart people, the smartest people,  you wouldn't even believe it how smart the Trumptards are.

TimG expressed his hope that you were talking about an eons-scale warming-cooling cycle, but I have a hunch that your take is closer to the President's view than to Tim's.

Tim expressed that only dumb-people would say "look how cold it is outside, global warming is fake!" and a week later El Trumpo gets on Twitter and proves him right.


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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2018, 04:27:45 pm »
What 'other side' ?  This is a dullard's response. 

There are many questions:

A: Is warming happening ?
B: Is it likely human caused ?
C: What should the response be ?

Anybody with half a clue who follows these things would understand that.

Yes
Yes
Stop it.

Let me know when anyone actually figures out a way to stop it.
Time for bed said Zebedee...
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Offline JBG

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2018, 05:28:53 pm »
you've already shown your ignorance on this point on the, "other board"... and you've had your azzz handed to you in that regard. Revel in your 'fringe of the fringe view' that surface temperature records and underlying data methodologies are a global conspiracy focused on artificially crafting a global warming meme!
Are you assuming I'm a "JBG" from another board?
Trump - Watch what he does, not how he says it.

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Offline TimG

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2018, 06:06:02 pm »
Let me know when anyone actually figures out a way to stop it.
And that is the trillion dollar question. The world seems divided between people who would rather throw money at the problem even if the money has little chance of making a difference and those who think it waste of time to even try because any effort is doomed to fail. In the end we will need to adapt to whatever changes come.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2018, 06:11:12 pm »
And that is the trillion dollar question. The world seems divided between people who would rather throw money at the problem even if the money has little chance of making a difference and those who think it waste of time to even try because any effort is doomed to fail. In the end we will need to adapt to whatever changes come.

Agreed.  It does seem that the impression of action is far more important than the effectiveness of such.  For the first twenty five years, at least, an outside observer would have been forgiven for thinking the issue was not that big a deal at all.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline waldo

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2018, 07:58:30 am »
And that is the trillion dollar question. The world seems divided between people who would rather throw money at the problem even if the money has little chance of making a difference and those who think it waste of time to even try because any effort is doomed to fail. In the end we will need to adapt to whatever changes come.

your forever adaptationOnly - noMitigation drumbeat: again, you have never attached any timeline, any requirements, any applied specifics, any related policy, any global/regional associations to your adaptation drumbeat!. As I recall, your only revelation has been to suggest that all adaptation will be done, "in isolation at the local level"... whatever the hell that really translates to for a global community of nations subject to border free atmosphere, oceans and environmental impacts.

you continue to be as vague as ever, as vague as possible, simply alluding to some uncertain and imprecise futures adaptation requirement; something that clearly plays to your, again, "do nothing today, delay at all costs" mantra. Again, you used to only speak of, "do nothing/delay", in terms of mitigation... now you've begun to openly apply it to your nebulous ramblings on adaptation as well - to, as you say, "whatever changes will come"! You forever contest the legitimacy of any shifts towards alternative energy sources... anything that might reduce some degree of reliance on the status-quo fossil-fuel usage while reducing emissions and working to stabilize atmospheric concentrations.

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2018, 08:53:12 am »
Are you assuming I'm a "JBG" from another board?
Seeing as your main argument is "OMG they're bashing Trump", how could you not be?

Offline kimmy

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2018, 09:48:38 am »
base load

base load

base load

Storing energy generated by wind and solar for later use is a problem that can and will be solved. We're not talking about exceeding the speed of light here.  For vehicles the solution is slow and incremental improvements in battery and capacitor technology. But for stationary generating stations there are a lot more possibilities for storing energy, many of them "low-tech". Ideas like pumping water uphill, raising large weights, or compressing air are obvious examples.  This isn't a big technological hurdle, it's just a question of how much people want to use it.

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Offline TimG

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2018, 03:00:08 pm »
Ideas like pumping water uphill, raising large weights, or compressing air are obvious examples.  This isn't a big technological hurdle, it's just a question of how much people want to use it.
Pumping water is the only option that could possibly work at the scale required and if it is deployed on a large scale it will have a huge footprint and all of the problems/costs that go with it. Look at the fuss over Site C dam - a "water storage" facility that can supply a mere 10% of the electricity needs of a population of 4 million or so. Building enough pumped storage to supply the needs of the world is not remotely viable even if there was the will. Once the costs are added up the only answer will be: we need baseload and that is nuclear, coal  or  gas (hydro only where geography cooperates). I realize that many people simply deny this reality but such delusional thinking is why I have no interest in an CO2 mitigation. If advocates for mitigation are willing to be reasonable it would a different story.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 03:38:40 pm by TimG »