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Author Topic: Global Darkening Crisis  (Read 2142 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #255 on: January 12, 2018, 12:46:27 pm »
I have several different CR's of different sizes by Jeppesen and an E6B but I also have an old fashioned straight one that was my dad's in university and I used in high school. I'm sure it's in a box somewhere.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #256 on: January 12, 2018, 03:00:30 pm »
Quote from: waldo on January 11, 2018, 06:48:48 pm
no... you're replying to this post:
the NREL cite/reference that goes with that post is the following:



are you sure you want to play in this thread?  ;D

"Furthermore, studies and operational practices have found that EXISTING CONVENTIONAL PLANTS that reduce output to accommodate wind and solar typically can provide the reserves needed."

You do realize, don't you, that all this means you have to keep conventional power plants there and ready to pick up the slack? Or do you? You sure you can read? I mean, none of the words were even very long or complicated but... maybe you didn't understand.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #257 on: January 12, 2018, 03:03:17 pm »
Quote from: wilber on January 11, 2018, 09:23:10 pm
Eventually we will have to stop or mother nature will do it for us, so when do we start working on it? Or do you just plan on continuing on as you are an leaving it to your grand children, like the public debt? Or more accurately, on top of the public debt.

I plan on continuing until technology provides me with an electric car, and solar panels with a battery, whereupon I will be happy to switch over.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #258 on: January 12, 2018, 03:20:07 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 03:03:17 pm
I plan on continuing until technology provides me with an electric car, and solar panels with a battery, whereupon I will be happy to switch over.

Electric cars have been around for quite awhile now and grid tied solar is getting cheaper all the time.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #259 on: January 12, 2018, 03:36:10 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 03:00:30 pm
You do realize, don't you, that all this means you have to keep conventional power plants there and ready to pick up the slack? Or do you? You sure you can read? I mean, none of the words were even very long or complicated but... maybe you didn't understand.

the context was variability... you even cut off the words, "to accommodate additional variability", from your chosen quote --- that is to say, accommodation performed at the existing system level (as distinct from the need for any dedicated backup just for renewable variability).

your smokescreen verbosity and personal penchant for insults don't cover-up your fundamental misunderstandings... even if no targeted measures were deployed, existing reserves already exist within a properly sized/managed grid. However, as highlighted previously, operations companies understand mitigating practices like renewables geographic dispersion and aggregation significantly reduce any need for additional reserves - notwithstanding smart grid aspects and enhanced weather forecasting techniques/technologies reducing uncertainties... all working against the need for additional reserve requirements.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #260 on: January 12, 2018, 06:15:44 pm »
Quote from: waldo on January 12, 2018, 03:36:10 pm
the context was variability... you even cut off the words, "to accommodate additional variability", from your chosen quote --- that is to say, accommodation performed at the existing system level (as distinct from the need for any dedicated backup just for renewable variability).

your smokescreen verbosity and personal penchant for insults don't cover-up your fundamental misunderstandings... even if no targeted measures were deployed, existing reserves already exist within a properly sized/managed grid.

In other words, there has to be backup, which is what you've been arguing is unneeded. Duh. ::)
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Offline waldo

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #261 on: January 13, 2018, 12:11:11 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 12, 2018, 06:15:44 pm
In other words, there has to be backup, which is what you've been arguing is unneeded. Duh. ::)

The salient point on backup concerns related to the variability of renewables (wind & solar) is whether or not additional reserves are required, particularly for the current penetration rates. And again, with that same legitimate focus on the U.S. (as the world's historical #1 emitter), I've read references to increased rates even approaching 30% shouldn't require additional reserves for properly managed/sized systems, particularly in relation to the deployment of sound operational mitigating options I mentioned (like renewables geographic dispersion and aggregation; like smart grid aspects; like enhanced weather forecasting techniques/technologies reducing uncertainties; etc..) 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:56:21 am by JMT »
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #262 on: January 13, 2018, 10:15:46 am »
Quote from: waldo on January 13, 2018, 12:11:11 am
The salient point on backup concerns related to the variability of renewables (wind & solar) is whether or not additional reserves are required, particularly for the current penetration rates. And again, with that same legitimate focus on the U.S. (as the world's historical #1 emitter), I've read references to increased rates even approaching 30% shouldn't require additional reserves for properly managed/sized systems, particularly in relation to the deployment of sound operational mitigating options I mentioned (like renewables geographic dispersion and aggregation; like smart grid aspects; like enhanced weather forecasting techniques/technologies reducing uncertainties; etc..)

This kind of brainless blowhard snot is why most people with more than half a brain couldn't even be bothered to listen to the global warming fanatics.  So desperate to push their idiot agenda they can't even admit what's bloody obvious to everyone, and so they place the legitimacy of their entire argument into doubt.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:56:51 am by JMT »
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline waldo

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #263 on: January 13, 2018, 12:19:35 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 13, 2018, 10:15:46 am
This kind of brainless blowhard snot is why most people with more than half a brain couldn't even be bothered to listen to the global warming fanatics.  So desperate to push their idiot agenda they can't even admit what's bloody obvious to everyone, and so they place the legitimacy of their entire argument into doubt.

if you aren't capable of discussing without insults, should you actually be in these types of threads... threads that typically rely upon more critical thought, more in-depth review, more comprehensive analysis, more extensive research, etc.?

« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 12:26:40 pm by JMT »
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Offline JMT

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #264 on: January 13, 2018, 12:26:50 pm »
You both need to cool it a bit.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 05:51:30 pm by JMT »
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #265 on: January 13, 2018, 07:38:46 pm »
Quote from: Omni on January 12, 2018, 03:20:07 pm
Electric cars have been around for quite awhile now and grid tied solar is getting cheaper all the time.

I'm not going to go solar until there is reasonable battery storage capacity. At that point I'll be all in since I really don't want to rely on the grid at all.
As for electric cars, they don't yet have the supporting infrastructure or range, though they're getting there fast. I expect my next car will likely be one.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #266 on: January 13, 2018, 07:57:01 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 13, 2018, 07:38:46 pm
I'm not going to go solar until there is reasonable battery storage capacity. At that point I'll be all in since I really don't want to rely on the grid at all.
As for electric cars, they don't yet have the supporting infrastructure or range, though they're getting there fast. I expect my next car will likely be one.

The grid tied systems currently available give you solar, battery storage, and then grid if the sun goes down and the battery is flat. From what I've read the system will pay for itself in 8-10 years.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #267 on: January 13, 2018, 08:00:19 pm »
Quote from: Omni on January 13, 2018, 07:57:01 pm
The grid tied systems currently available give you solar, battery storage, and then grid if the sun goes down and the battery is flat. From what I've read the system will pay for itself in 8-10 years.

This is a brand new house and is extremely well-insulated with high efficiency systems. It will take somewhat longer than 8-10 years so I need more incentive, and that incentive is being able to have power even if Ontario's teetering, screwed up power system breaks down. Solar cells are also much more resistant to EMPs and have only a few small parts which are vulnerable. At least, according to my electrician brother in law. Prices are going down all the time and batteries are improving and I don't want to get stuck with an overpriced, under performing system. But I'm sure it won't be too long.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Global Darkening Crisis
« Reply #268 on: January 13, 2018, 08:02:06 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on January 13, 2018, 08:00:19 pm
This is a brand new house and is extremely well-insulated with high efficiency systems. It will take somewhat longer than 8-10 years so I need more incentive, and that incentive is being able to have power even if Ontario's teetering, screwed up power system breaks down. Solar cells are also much more resistant to EMPs and have only a few small parts which are vulnerable. At least, according to my electrician brother in law. Prices are going down all the time and batteries are improving and I don't want to get stuck with an overpriced, under performing system. But I'm sure it won't be too long.

Well then stay on the grid.
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