Author Topic: Gaza Border Cutting - Hamas the Provocatur or Israel the Deadly Bully  (Read 420 times)

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Offline ?Impact

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Does anyone find it hypocritical that North Americans stage "Israeli Apartheid Week" when Canada and the USA have done far worse to our First Nations people throughout Canadian history.

Some people can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Offline JBG

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What portion of our Syrian refugees are planning on going back to Syria? Some, perhaps.  What portion of our Syrian refugees' grandchildren do you imagine going back to Syria?  Very few, I expect. People start over and build new lives.   All over the world, people are eager to move from crappier circumstances to better circumstances.

Palestinians are unique among the world's refugees in that they're the only refugee population where most are refugees for hereditary reasons rather than having been personally displaced.  The whole concept of hereditary refugees is troubling.   What do you call the children of the Vietnamese refugees who came to Canada?  Canadians.  What do you call the children of Syrian refugees who are born in Canada?  Canadians.   Do we have segregated encampments of Syrian refugees in Canada waiting to be sent back to their land of origin?  No, we don't.   We would consider that abhorrent. Why would we support Arab nations treating their supposed brethren this way which we'd consider a national disgrace if it were done here?


Why is it better than the alternative?

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Offline JBG

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Why didn't the Jews?  Why don't they now?
6,000,000 dead is enough. We tried that. Didn't work out so well.
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Offline Granny

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Syrian refugees fleeing the war there have come to new countries with the chance of starting new lives and leaving Syria behind for good.
 -k

Gee, you really skimmed over the intentional destruction of Syria ... "the war" waged against Syria by the USA for private corporate profits.
So it's ok with you if the USA destroys any country to get their oil, and the people should just 'go away'?
Just trying to get my head around what it is that you're actually trying to say.
If I squat in your yard with big weapons and then start tearing your house down, you should just 'go away' ? Right?

Offline Rue

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Why do you think that absorbing Palestinians would have solved it ? 

The status quo exists for a reason.  Nobody wants this but it's better than the alternative.  And Israel can game the Palestinians into in-fighting, baiting and generally stagnating forever.

The reason for the status quo is because Arabic nations of the Middle East refused to take in Palestinians and deliberately placed them in refugee camps to use them as pawns to warn the world until Israel is removed tthes ePaletsinians will be kept in this camps as hostages. That is public knowledge openly explained by the Arab alliance when it imprisoned these Palestinians in the cmaps. Israel did not imprison them the Arab alliance did-the same Arab alliance whose decision  was to try eradicate all Jews from Palestine and prevent it from having a Jewish state which led to the displacement of certain but not all Palestinians. Those Palestinians that did not leave became Israeli citizens, and to this day choose not to give up their Israeli citizenship and live a higher standard of living than Muslims do in Muslim states.

The decision for Palestinians to leave where Israel became after 1949 was their choice pushed by the Arab League. The definition of Palestinian used today only came about in 1967 after Arafat failed to assassinate Hussein and take over Jordan.

Jordan was illegally create dout of 85% of Palestine as a Palestinian state. It gave all Palestinians automatic citizenship and to this day will not give any Jewish Palestinian citizenship. Palestinians today are descendants of people who have moved to the West Bank who are not Palestinian as well as descendants of Palestinians who were never displaced from Israel. Palestinians are the only refugees defined in the world the way they are. Every refugee in the world must himself or herself be displace dhysically by war to be called a refufee. A Palestinian can mean anyone who CLAIMS but does not have to prove, they are descended from a Palestinain displaced in the 1949 war as long as they are not a Jew. There is no objective test. All you have to do is say you are Palestinian and you care called one.

Hamas believes all of today's Israel, West Bank and Jordan should be a Sharia law Sunni Muslim state as part of the first stage of a world government led by a Muslim council and teaches Jews need to be wiped off the planet. Read their charter and listen to their speeches.

As well the so called Palestinian Authority supports violence and terror as a means to achieve a country and also believeds all of Israel, the West Bank and Jordan should be ruled by it in a Sharia Law Muslim state.

Neither of these movements will or has ever recognized the right of Israel to be a JEWISH state because they believe states in the Middle East can only be Sharia law Muslim states and no Jew is allowed to own land or have a country or have equal rights to Muslims, anywhere in the world, not just the Middle East.

The status quo is a collective belief enforced by Hamas and the PA as well as Arab alliance that no Muslim can ever recognize a non Muslim Jewish state in Israel.

Had Palestinians after 1949 been made nationals of Jordan and the Arab alliance of nations recognized the Jewish state of course there would be no current issue.

Why  would you need to ask why  using Palestinians as hostages to blackmail the world into getting rid of Israel is at the root of the conflict?

Just read the rhetoric on this forum from anti Israelis using their script that holocaust survivors escaping Europe to Israel or escaping Muslim persecution in Arab countries to Israel are colonialist invaders.
Read the script that if Jews have a nation that is racist but if Muslims have nations its not. Read how Israel is apartheid when it offers all the rights no Jew has in an Arab country and how Jews in Muslim countries live in bantu lands, segregated ghettos forced on them because they are dhimmi, second class inferiors unable to own land or enjoy the same rights as Muslims. The rhetoruic won't call Muslim states bigoted or anti-semitic or engaging in the very apartheid they accuse Israel of.

The status quo is a double standard promulgated throughout the Middle East by Muslim nations who do not separate Islam from the government teaching that Jews are an evil that must be wiped from the earth. The status quo in the Middle East is to define Jews as a vile enemy.

The status quo in the Middle East are military dictatorships and/or fundamentalist Muslim regimes where no human rights or democratic institutions exist.

Israel established its status quo in 1949 as a direct result of an usuccessful attempt by the Arab council of nations to commit genocide on Middle East Jews in the remaining 10% of Palestine the British didn't illegally turn into a Palestinian state.

The status quo is the Arab nations and Palestinians today pretending Jordan is not a Palestinian state and in fact they want a second one because this is not about leiving peacefully next door to Israel, its about wiping it out as a Jewish state.

The status quo is the collective Arab  mindset that Israel needs to be wiped out and the Arab world clings to it the way Christians for thousands of years clinged to the concept that Jews killed Jesus and therefore all their descendants should suffer to hell unless they convert.

The sttaus quo is prevalent and entrenched anti semitism learned through Islamic preachings which mutated and mixed with HNazi and Russian anti semitism to form what it is today and is considered acceptable by both trendy eftists and extreme neo Nazi right wingers.


THIS POST WAS EDITED TO CORRECT SPELLING AND WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN WITH A HAND TABLET THAT CAUSES THE WRITER EYE TO HAND DISTORTION CAUSED BY A COGNITIVE DISABILITY WHICH CAN BE LETTER CORRECTED USING A LARGER SCREEN. THE WRITER APOLOGIZES FOR SPELLING ERRORS.



« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 09:56:53 am by Rue »
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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Non-Aboriginals simply came over to the New World, committed genocide, confined them to reservations, and took away their children in a failed attempt to "eradicate the Indian in them."

That's pretty much right, but to be fair, while there was some violence against aboriginals in Canada for sure, most aboriginals died inadvertently from diseases brought over by Europeans rather than violence, and it's estimated that the population of aboriginals in Canada right now is about the same or higher as just before Europeans arrived.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline Granny

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That's pretty much right, but to be fair, while there was some violence against aboriginals in Canada for sure, most aboriginals died inadvertently from diseases brought over by Europeans rather than violence,
Oh ya, boatloads and wagonloads of smallpox blankets from British hospitals were 'inadvertently' delivered to Indigenous communities all across the country.
Indigenous communities 'inadvertently' all contracted disease and died at once - ie from diseased blankets, not from natural human transmission of disease.
From contact in the 1500's to colonies in the 1600's there were 100 years of conquest of North America, funded by monarchs and  merchants, carried out by missionaries and militia, 100 years of merciless attacks on Indigenous people, decimating their populations ... nothing "inadvertent" about genocide..

And there is nothing 'inadvertent' about Israel's genocidal designs and actions against Palestinians.
I Don't see anyone here saying that Palestinians have a right to live in their own land. All I see are people saying 'Why don't they just leave'.
Meaning ... 'why don't they just let the Israelis drive them out?'
Does that mean ... 'if they stay they deserve to be killed enmasse'  ??

Is genocide ever 'deserved'?



Offline Spectre of Graham

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Oh ya, boatloads and wagonloads of smallpox blankets from British hospitals were 'inadvertently' delivered to Indigenous communities all across the country.

Do you have evidence to support this claim?  I've heard of some isolated incidents of infected blankets allegedly being spread which certainly seems plausible, never heard of a large-scale attempt by the Crown to kill them all.  I've never heard of boatloads & wagonloads from Britain to across the country.  There's also isolated incidents of genocide of local groups by some settlers.

What often happened is the disease would inadvertently spread after native-European contact, and as early Europeans traveled across the country exploring the country for the first time, they would encounter empty native villages they had never encountered before where the natives had died from diseases that had spread by other natives inadvertently via native trade networks & inter-native conflicts etc.

Indigenous people's were important trading partners for the early settlers & were fundamental in the fur trade as they would hunt for beavers along routes they knew in very isolated and hard-to-reach areas and return to trade them with European settlers & traders for goods.  Sometimes they were pushed out of areas & even killed, but to give the impression they just wanted to butcher them all isn't accurate.

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Indigenous communities 'inadvertently' all contracted disease and died at once - ie from diseased blankets, not from natural human transmission of disease.

Again, provide evidence for this claim.

[/quote]From contact in the 1500's to colonies in the 1600's there were 100 years of conquest of North America, funded by monarchs and  merchants, carried out by missionaries and militia, 100 years of merciless attacks on Indigenous people, decimating their populations ... nothing "inadvertent" about genocide..[/quote]

The US might be a different case for sure, and of course Mexico, but in Canada the European population was small.  In the 1600's it struggled greatly to even maintain permanent settlers as conditions in winter were harsh.  Canada's population in 1760 was only 70,000, while in 1776 the US population was 2.5 million.  Diseases spread much more quickly in Canada than Europeans did, although as I said sometimes the natives that were encountered were treated horribly & isolated attempts at genocide of certain groups in certain areas occurred.

Quote
And there is nothing 'inadvertent' about Israel's genocidal designs and actions against Palestinians.
I Don't see anyone here saying that Palestinians have a right to live in their own land. All I see are people saying 'Why don't they just leave'.
Meaning ... 'why don't they just let the Israelis drive them out?'

I don't see evidence of Palestinian genocide by Israel, but I do see ethnic cleansing, apartheid-like policies, and colonial annexation like in the West Bank.  Palestinians deserve a 2-state solution IMO and have a right to exist as much as Israel.  To be fair, while Israel is more about ethnic-cleansing, different Arab groups/countries including different Palestinian groups would certainly commit genocide on Jews in Israel if they had the power to do it.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline Granny

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I don't see evidence of Palestinian genocide by Israel, but I do see ethnic cleansing,

What's the difference?

Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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The way Jews are treated throughout Europe in regards to the Israel/Palestine issue, I sometimes wish Israel would legitimately go into the West Bank and kick all the Palestinians out.
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Offline Granny

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The sttaus quo is prevalent and entrenched anti semitism learned through Islamic preachings which mutated and mixed with HNazi and Russian anti semitism to form what it is today and is considered acceptable by both trendy eftists and extreme neo Nazi right wingers.

It's always sad when the persecuted become the persecutors, and justify it by saying "He did it first!"
Then it's just a gutter fight with no intelligent consideration of what it takes to rise above that level.
It's just very sad that Israel only aspires to be the oppressors and justify that, instead of aspiring to be be better than ...
Then it's hopeless.

When the bullied kid only aspires to become the bully ... their prospects of a better life become extremely limited.   

Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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It's always sad when the persecuted become the persecutors, and justify it by saying "He did it first!"
Then it's just a gutter fight with no intelligent consideration of what it takes to rise above that level.
It's just very sad that Israel only aspires to be the oppressors and justify that, instead of aspiring to be be better than ...
Then it's hopeless.

The Arabs have been threatening to "eradicate the State of Israel" for over 70 years. Israel has won every war fought in the Middle East, and they still are victims of terrorist attacks, and attacks from Muslim civilians throughout the World for being Jewish.  Considering that nearly 70% of Europe's Jewish population was wiped out during the Holocaust, and repeated attacks from it's neighbors, can you blame Israel for distrusting Arabs, even though they may have been born in Israel?

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When the bullied kid only aspires to become the bully ... their prospects of a better life become extremely limited.

You fail to mention that the Arabs are partially responsible for the predicament of the Palestinians.  For Arab countries, the Palestinians are pawns in a political game against Israel.  By not letting them immigrate to other Arab nations, they are being used for the sole purpose of furthering political agendas of Israel's not-so-friendly neighbors.

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Offline Granny

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... can you blame Israel for distrusting Arabs, even though they may have been born in Israel?

... they are being used for the sole purpose of furthering political agendas of Israel's not-so-friendly neighbors.
Further attempts at justification of injustice only confirm the committment to ... nothingness ... hopelessness.

Offline Spectre of Graham

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I don't see evidence of Palestinian genocide by Israel, but I do see ethnic cleansing,

What's the difference?

Genocide is removal of a group by killing, ethnic cleansing is pushing them out of a territory, not necessarily killing them but removing them.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.
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Offline the_squid

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Genocide is removal of a group by killing, ethnic cleansing is pushing them out of a territory, not necessarily killing them but removing them.

Not the common definition.  It can, and usually does, include killing.

the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society.


Can you tell us of an ethnic cleansing event that didnít include any killing?
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