Author Topic: Coronavirus Science (facts don’t care about your feelings)  (Read 3704 times)

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Offline JMT

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This is obviously incorrect.  Provinces have banned gatherings of X amount of people. That very clearly goes against the Charter.  That's why they've declared a state of emergency.

Like I said, that hasn't been challenged in court. It's actually unclear if those laws are constitutional.

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When Justin went to the protest he broke the law.  But you'll never admit that, because you're biased.  So whatever.  Apparently breaking the law is fine as long as the virtue is high enough.  Never waste a good photo op.

He broke the law. It isn't the important point.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Like I said, that hasn't been challenged in court. It's actually unclear if those laws are constitutional.

The charter says we have right to peaceful assembly.  Provinces have banned peaceful assembly.  It's pretty clear this goes against the Charter.

If a gov declares a state of emergency, ie: the Emergencies Act, they are doing so to suspend civil liberties in order to respond to a crisis.  It's a legit crisis, i don't have a problem with it.

People are filing Charter challenges in court.  https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/civil-liberties-group-filing-charter-challenge-over-newfoundlands-ban-on-travel-into-province
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Offline JMT

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Here's the thing - the Charter says this:

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

That means that it's not as simple as 'Trudeau broke the law.' Did he? I don't know. You don't know. Is a protest of the very rules meant to keep us safe from the pandemic reasonable? Probably not. Is a protest against 400 years of racial oppression reasonable? Probably. It's not that simple. You know it's not that simple.

Offline wilber

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Black people in Canada are protesting systemic racism in Canada. Yes, an event in the US was a catalyst. That doesn't make it any less Justin Trudeau's problem.

It's everyones problem, Justin doesn't own it.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 02:57:50 pm by wilber »
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Offline wilber

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Here's the thing - the Charter says this:

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

That means that it's not as simple as 'Trudeau broke the law.' Did he? I don't know. You don't know. Is a protest of the very rules meant to keep us safe from the pandemic reasonable? Probably not. Is a protest against 400 years of racial oppression reasonable? Probably. It's not that simple. You know it's not that simple.

Of course he broke it. If he disagrees with a law, protest it in the courts. He is a prime minister of a country who is supposed to make laws and uphold its institutions, not a social activist.
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Offline JMT

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Of course he broke it. If he disagrees with a law, protest it in the courts. He is a prime minister of a country who is supposed to make laws and uphold its institutions, not a social activist.

He's supposed to be the Prime Minister for everyone, including those who feel disenfranchised by systemic racism. You have no concept of the symbolism of him being there of taking a knee.

Offline JMT

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It's everyones problem, Justin doesn't own it.

Like you just pointed out, he's the Prime Minister. That makes it uniquely his problem.

Offline cybercoma

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Acts of Parliament don't override the Charter.
It’s amazing how people don’t even understand this fundamental point. This is literally the key to our legal and political system; yet, idiots are arguing as if primary law takes a back seat to secondary laws.

Offline wilber

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Like you just pointed out, he's the Prime Minister. That makes it uniquely his problem.

Racism is everyones problem, his job is to act like a head of government and respect the laws of the country, province and city he happens to be in.
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Offline wilber

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It’s amazing how people don’t even understand this fundamental point. This is literally the key to our legal and political system; yet, idiots are arguing as if primary law takes a back seat to secondary laws.

We decide these things in the courts, not on the street. Particularly if you are a head of government.
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Offline wilber

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He's supposed to be the Prime Minister for everyone, including those who feel disenfranchised by systemic racism. You have no concept of the symbolism of him being there of taking a knee.

Well he isn't being prime minister for everyone when he jumps on bandwagons and starts attending protest demonstrations. He needs to make up his mind, does he want to be a head of government or a social activist.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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It’s amazing how people don’t even understand this fundamental point. This is literally the key to our legal and political system; yet, idiots are arguing as if primary law takes a back seat to secondary laws.

Well yeah...  any law would have to fall within the "reasonable and justified" clause in the Constitution.  And laws that wouldn't normally be reasonable in normal times certainly could be considered reasonable during a pandemic.  Things like limiting groups to 10 people, not allowing stores to open, not allowing churches to have people in them, etc. would not be allowed in normal circumstances, but are likely reasonable restrictions in a pandemic.

Clearly Trudeau and the protestors were breaking Ontario law...  they could challenge it in court and possibly win, if the Ontario emergency powers were deemed unconstitutional.

Personally, I think he was a bit damned if he does, damned if he doesn't in this situation.

I also don't think protestors should be let go while a guy in Calgary was fined in the thousands for having a soccer camp for some kids in a park.  But there was no way cops were going to break up these protest.  They'd be  seen as racists, not protecting public health. 

It makes the entire public health response to COVID a bit of a lark when it seems that if you have a good cause, then you can break the restrictions.  If you don't, you get fined.

Offline wilber

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Damned if he doesn't by who? Would you rather be damned for breaking the law or obeying it?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 07:49:13 pm by wilber »
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guest78

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Remember when funerals were prohibited?  It was too risky!  But George Floyd can have 3 funerals, packed with people!  So if you’re keeping score at home, protesting was irresponsible, until it was for a progressive approved reason.  Then funerals were prohibited, until it was for a progressive approved person.  Then it doesn’t matter.
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guest78

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Of course he broke it. If he disagrees with a law, protest it in the courts. He is a prime minister of a country who is supposed to make laws and uphold its institutions, not a social activist.
There’s 2 sets of standards.  One for woke politics and one for everybody else.
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