Author Topic: Coronavirus Science (facts donít care about your feelings)  (Read 1723 times)

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Offline Shady

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More evidence that coronavirus is much less lethal than first thought.

96% of nearly 3,300 inmates with coronavirus were asymptomatic, survey shows
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-prisons-asymptomatic-8daaaa08-b53e-4368-adb7-88b7d93efece.html
Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.
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Offline Shady

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More science coming in everyday.  Remember that these scientific facts, donít care about what you feel or think.

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns
Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/22/there-is-no-empirical-evidence-for-these-lockdowns/
Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.
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Offline wilber

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Herd immunity is a very catchy phrase, except we don't know the long term and extended effects of infection. There is more evidence all the time that it can do lasting damage to multiple organs and cause strokes in relatively younger people. You might end up immune to the virus itself yet have had permanent damage to other organs and die of something other than respiratory failure.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Shady

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Herd immunity is a very catchy phrase, except we don't know the long term and extended effects of infection. There is more evidence all the time that it can do lasting damage to multiple organs and cause strokes in relatively younger people. You might end up immune to the virus itself yet have had permanent damage to other organs and die of something other than respiratory failure.
I agree with you that still not much is known about the virus, especially long term.  However. There are degrees of permanent damage.
Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.

Offline Shady

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New study, which shouldíve been obvious from the start. Hopefully this will be policy going forward, instead of the disastrous one size fits all approach that panic and fear led to in the first place.

Targeted Lockdowns Are Better
A new study finds they save more lives and do less economic damage

https://www.wsj.com/articles/targeted-lockdowns-are-better-11588630768
Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.

Offline waldo

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High risk people should be protected and isolated.

and in the absence of appropriate related counter-measures in place to do exactly that... you falsely posture as a proponent of science while blathering on about "anti-herders"! Of course you do.

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Offline waldo

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More evidence that coronavirus is much less lethal than first thought.

96% of nearly 3,300 inmates with coronavirus were asymptomatic, survey shows
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-prisons-asymptomatic-8daaaa08-b53e-4368-adb7-88b7d93efece.html

hey Mr. Science! You haven't a clue. Over as long as a 2-week period a diagnosed asymptomatic carrier can be developing pre-symptomatically... about 75% of people who test positive without showing symptoms turn out to be pre-symptomatic, displaying coughing, fatigue, fever and other signs of COVID-19 in a later follow-up exam.

try again, try harder!

Offline Bubbermiley

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More evidence that coronavirus is much less lethal than first thought.

96% of nearly 3,300 inmates with coronavirus were asymptomatic, survey shows
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-prisons-asymptomatic-8daaaa08-b53e-4368-adb7-88b7d93efece.html
This is hilarious. You don't even understand how much you don't understand.
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Offline Shady

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hey Mr. Science! You haven't a clue. Over as long as a 2-week period a diagnosed asymptomatic carrier can be developing pre-symptomatically... about 75% of people who test positive without showing symptoms turn out to be pre-symptomatic, displaying coughing, fatigue, fever and other signs of COVID-19 in a later follow-up exam.

try again, try harder!
You donít seem to understand.  This data suggests a significant under counting of the infected population.  Which means the actual fatality rate is much lower than originally thought.  Thatís actually a good thing.  I know youíre a big China supporter, but you donít have to be a covid supporter too.  Sheesh.
Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.

Offline Shady

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Almost 80% of new hospitalizations in New York are from people being infected AT HOME.  Not at work.  AT HOME.  More data indicating this panic driven shutdown was unscientific and counter productive.  Cuomo of course is shocked!
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/gov-cuomo-reacts-to-shocking-new-stats-revealing-66-of-hospitalized-coronavirus-patients-had-been-social-distancing/

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Anti-herd is the new anti-vaxx.

Offline waldo

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More evidence that coronavirus is much less lethal than first thought.

96% of nearly 3,300 inmates with coronavirus were asymptomatic, survey shows
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-prisons-asymptomatic-8daaaa08-b53e-4368-adb7-88b7d93efece.html

hey Mr. Science! You haven't a clue. Over as long as a 2-week period a diagnosed asymptomatic carrier can be developing pre-symptomatically... about 75% of people who test positive without showing symptoms turn out to be pre-symptomatic, displaying coughing, fatigue, fever and other signs of COVID-19 in a later follow-up exam.

try again, try harder!
You donít seem to understand.  This data suggests a significant under counting of the infected population.  Which means the actual fatality rate is much lower than originally thought.  Thatís actually a good thing.  I know youíre a big China supporter, but you donít have to be a covid supporter too.  Sheesh.

Mr. Science! Do you feel comfortable using a U.S. 'for-profit-system' prison population sampling to represent conditions within the general populace?  ;D

- in those confined, often over-crowded spaces... how's that social-distancing thingee working out?
- what's the typical sanitary condition in those, quite literally, perfect petri-dish environments for the spread of COVID-19?
- how's the availability of proper hand-washing capabilities... wait, what... you're saying sanitizers are contraband given the presence of alcohol in them?
- oh my Mr. Science... aren't there a lot of high-risk and elderly persons within those prison populations?

Mr. Science, as the grand supporter of science that you are... would you like a do-over?

Offline waldo

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More data indicating this panic driven shutdown was unscientific and counter productive. 

Mr. Science - you've made a summary statement based on data that, apparently, lacks causal attachment(s). Are you able to present the/your science that substantiates your claim? This is, after all, your ScienceyThread... isn't it?
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Offline kimmy

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A few sciency thoughts:

 -the virus is mutating.  There won't be a single coronavirus... it'll be like "the flu" where each year they come up with a cocktail of vaccines based on what they think people will most need protection from.
 
 -natural selection will make sure that the most vicious strains of the virus are removed from the pool.  The carriers will become sick and be quickly identified and prevented from transmitting.

 -conversely the strains of the virus that generate the least symptoms and the least harm to the carriers will be the ones that stay with us. It will be propagated everywhere by people who don't even know they're sick. It'll be with us forever.

 -ironically what makes coronavirus so dangerous is that it's not very dangerous.  Something like Ebola makes the host so sick that they have little opportunity to transmit it. Rhinovirus, on the other hand, is so harmless that its carriers transmit it everywhere. Coronavirus is somewhere in between. It's harmless enough to most hosts that it can be transmitted widely, and yet it is dangerous enough to some hosts that it can kill.

 -eventually, there'll be an equilibrium.  We will see what that looks like when we get there. Probably it means that some of the people who'd die from the flu will die from coronavirus instead.  Maybe the average life expectancy is a tiny bit shorter. Maybe it isn't.  Aside from (hopefully) a vaccine, there will also be better treatments. We will adapt.

This won't keep us down for long.


 -k
Masked for your safety.

Online Omni

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A few sciency thoughts:

 -the virus is mutating.  There won't be a single coronavirus... it'll be like "the flu" where each year they come up with a cocktail of vaccines based on what they think people will most need protection from.
 
 -natural selection will make sure that the most vicious strains of the virus are removed from the pool.  The carriers will become sick and be quickly identified and prevented from transmitting.

 -conversely the strains of the virus that generate the least symptoms and the least harm to the carriers will be the ones that stay with us. It will be propagated everywhere by people who don't even know they're sick. It'll be with us forever.

 -ironically what makes coronavirus so dangerous is that it's not very dangerous.  Something like Ebola makes the host so sick that they have little opportunity to transmit it. Rhinovirus, on the other hand, is so harmless that its carriers transmit it everywhere. Coronavirus is somewhere in between. It's harmless enough to most hosts that it can be transmitted widely, and yet it is dangerous enough to some hosts that it can kill.

 -eventually, there'll be an equilibrium.  We will see what that looks like when we get there. Probably it means that some of the people who'd die from the flu will die from coronavirus instead.  Maybe the average life expectancy is a tiny bit shorter. Maybe it isn't.  Aside from (hopefully) a vaccine, there will also be better treatments. We will adapt.

This won't keep us down for long.


 -k

Wrong on a number of counts but the most important is that you can be a carrier and be asymptomatic. It's much more spread than was ebola and so it will keep us down for quite a bit longer. And those of us who ignore the realities will be kept down for really long. As in forever.
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Offline kimmy

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On the contrary, the asymptomatic carriers are exactly what makes coronavirus dangerous.  For most people the symptoms are either not there, or they are so mild that they escape notice.   When everybody was sick at our office in early March, we just thought a bad cold had gone around. Only later when our colleague tested positive when he was hospitalized for his heart attack did the possibility that we had the covid and not a common cold occur.

BC is talking about, sometime soon, beginning seratology testing to try to determine how far the virus has actually spread.  As a close contact of someone who tested positive, I will probably be among those contacted by BC CDC for testing.  I'm interested to see what the results are.

I think I have read that seratology studies, some of which have been done at small scale already, have found that more people than expected have coronavirus antibodies in their systems.

 -k
Masked for your safety.