Author Topic: Concerned about Venezuala  (Read 315 times)

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Offline Omni

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Concerned about Venezuala
« on: February 23, 2019, 03:29:58 pm »
People are starving and dying in hospitals for lack of meds in the country while Maduro hurls threats and instructs his military to block truckloads of international aid from crossing a bridge into Caracas. I'm worried this could turn really ugly.

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Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2019, 04:49:50 pm »
Brazil and Colombia may invade them soon. At least that is what the Brazilian Trump is trying to navigate.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 07:10:14 pm by Vid »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2019, 04:54:57 pm »
A sensible approach to my mind would be to let the aid trucks in to help the population, and then call an election. Not likely that will happen though, especially when we hear from Maduro.

Offline SuperColinBlow

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2019, 09:41:07 am »
A sensible approach to my mind would be to let the aid trucks in to help the population, and then call an election. Not likely that will happen though, especially when we hear from Maduro.

What if said election is as fixed as a Don King boxing match by the powers that be; thus resulting in a 99% victory for Maduro?

Brazil and Colombia may invade them soon.

Why would they?
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

Offline Granny

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2019, 01:44:48 pm »
People are starving and dying in hospitals for lack of meds in the country while Maduro hurls threats and instructs his military to block truckloads of international aid from crossing a bridge into Caracas. I'm worried this could turn really ugly.
Venezuela is accepting aid from many countries and the UN. Maduro just refuses to accept 'aid' from the US.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/04/12/why-the-us-aid-to-venezuela-was-not-real-aid-and-how-false-western-humanitarianism-is-used-to-justify-imperialism/
"The reality is that the Maduro administration has accepted aid from numerous countries as well as working with United Nations organizations, and the USAID was indeed a trojan horse to use as a means of US military intervention. "

It is the US that has concocted the current crisis in Venezuela, tried to install a leader favourable to US oil interests.

What the Maduro government is rejecting is “humanitarian” aid from the Trump administration and its allies, given that these regimes have made it clear that they intend to overthrow the Maduro government and undemocratically install their hand-picked, right-wing candidate Juan Guaido.
...
“Then the president talked about Venezuela. That’s the country we should be going to war with, he said. They have all that oil and they’re right on our back door.”

The US has a history of using “humanitarianism” as a guise and for military intervention, particularly through usage of USAID and corporate media manipulation.


And ... Canada just goes along with the US intervention in Venezuela ... because Canadian mining companies want access to Venezuela's minerals. Canada is complicit in an attempted US coup against a duly and properly elected Maduro government.

I note that as of today, the US coup effort has not succeeded in turning the Venezuelan military against Maduro. The majority of Venezuelans still support their democratically elected government and their nationalized resource industries.

The US tries to destroy any government in any country that nationalizes it's resources. There are many examples, notably Iraq and Syria.


Offline Granny

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2019, 08:56:25 am »
And the US coup fizzles out ... 😊
"The plot that failed" ... because Venezuelans do not want the US controlling their oil resources, nor do they want Canada controlling their mineral resources!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/03/venezuela-protests-news-latest-maduro-uprising-that-fizzled-

Offline Granny

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2019, 09:03:28 am »
What if said election is as fixed as a Don King boxing match by the powers that be; thus resulting in a 99% victory for Maduro?

Nonsense. The election was scrutinized and it was valid. And you can certainly see the truth today, because the Venezuelan people did not come out to  support the US coup, and it has fizzled out.

 Those are just Trump lies to try to justify a takeover of Venezuelan oil. And Trudeau's lies to try to take control of Venezuelan minerals.

The Venezuelan people are not interested.

Trump will start a war now.
Another war of US imperialism.

Offline MH

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2019, 09:15:07 am »

 Trump will start a war now.
Another war of US imperialism.

His buddy Putin is on the other side of this, though, and guess who is better at strategy and tactics.

Offline TimG

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2019, 11:05:46 am »
Nonsense. The election was scrutinized and it was valid.
ROTFL. Human rights watch has raised concerns about the fairness of the election:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/10/23/questionable-elections-venezuela
Saying it was valid takes some pretty delusional thinking.

Venezuela has already handed all of their oil assets to the Chinese in return for loans so it is quite hilarious to see you spinning conspiracy theories about the US wanting their oil. Thanks to shale oil the US does not need or want any more oil from third world basket cases. If anything, the collapse of Venezuela is good for the US exporters because the price of oil goes up.

The only people to blame for the crisis are Chavez and Maduro and the Venezuelans who supported them over the years.
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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2019, 12:21:29 pm »
Thanks to shale oil the US does not need or want any more oil from third world basket cases.

Sure why would the US (or Canada) want to keep controlling one of the most strategically important resources in the world it has been obsessed with controlling for the last 70 years+ whose output and global price can still be manipulated to decimate the US (and Canadian) economy as happened in the 1970's, and whose output and global price can be manipulated to decimate the US shale business and Alberta oil sands business as has happened in the last 5 years by OPEC?

Surely Venezuela being an OPEC member has nothing to do with US and Canada considerations.  Surely Canada, whose economy is highly dependent on the global price of oil, has no interests in this!  Surely it is democracy that Canada and the US care most about!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 12:38:34 pm by Poonlight Graham »
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.

Offline Granny

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2019, 01:20:08 pm »
Sure why would the US (or Canada) want to keep controlling one of the most strategically important resources in the world it has been obsessed with controlling for the last 70 years+ whose output and global price can still be manipulated to decimate the US (and Canadian) economy as happened in the 1970's, and whose output and global price can be manipulated to decimate the US shale business and Alberta oil sands business as has happened in the last 5 years by OPEC?

Surely Venezuela being an OPEC member has nothing to do with US and Canada considerations.  Surely Canada, whose economy is highly dependent on the global price of oil, has no interests in this!  Surely it is democracy that Canada and the US care most about!
Canadian mining companies want gold, not oil.

If the US doesn't want Venezuelan oil, explain Trump's quote:

Then the president talked about Venezuela. That’s the country we should be going to war with, he said. They have all that oil and they’re right on our back door.”

And as of today, support for the US installed Guaido has simply not shown up, nor did the military switch sides. It's a bust.
See link in my post above.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 01:23:24 pm by Granny »

Offline TimG

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2019, 01:25:14 pm »
If the US doesn't want Venezuelan oil, explain Trump's quote:
Trump is a moron that no one within the US government takes seriously. The UA strategic interest in Venezuela is a desire to see a true democracy/capitalist society and to undermine China's efforts to turn Venezuela in to a colony. Oil is no longer a strategic concern.
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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2019, 07:22:47 pm »
Trump is a moron that no one within the US government takes seriously. The UA strategic interest in Venezuela is a desire to see a true democracy/capitalist society and to undermine China's efforts to turn Venezuela in to a colony.

And why does the US want to see a democratic/capitalist society in Venezuela?  It's not because the US is just nice.  I certainly would't ignore concerns about Chinese influence as you're saying, but over the last several decades we've seen the same song and dance by the US in the middle east and latin america and elsewhere around the world.  Capitalist democracies are less likely to nationalize natural resources and more likely to let US companies and investors have access to those markets and make money for America, for Americans, especially for the wealthy who fund & lobby & work in the government.

Quote
Oil is no longer a strategic concern.

Link?
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2019, 08:35:32 pm »
And why does the US want to see a democratic/capitalist society in Venezuela?
Because it undermines China and Russia that find it easier to co-op dictatorship.

Capitalist democracies are less likely to nationalize natural resources and more likely to let US companies and investors have access to those markets and make money for America, for Americans, especially for the wealthy who fund & lobby & work in the government.
This too but when you bring in expertise and profit driven corporations efficiency goes up and the countries in question can often get a lot more value from their resources. So it can be a win-win depending on the fine print of the contracts signed. It is certainly a better deal than China's offers of loans followed by asset take overs when the country can't pay back the loans.

Link?
If the US cared about the oil price they would not be trying to boycott Iran.
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Offline Spectre of Graham

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Re: Concerned about Venezuala
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2019, 09:24:14 pm »
If the US cared about the oil price they would not be trying to boycott Iran.

That's not all the US cares about though.  Iran undermines all US interests it can muster because it has hated the US for many decades for helping install & propping up the Shah in order to secure US/western oil interests when the democratically elected Mossedegh was going to nationalize the oil in the 1950's.  The Iranian regime's raison d'etre is independence from being a western/US oil puppet state.  The US did roughly the same thing to Iran it seems like it's trying to do with Venezuela.

And ya there's considerations of whose influence Venezuela will fall under, Russia/China now, like in the 50's Iran could have slid to the USSR's side of the cold war.  We're basically saying similar things, i just disagree that Venezuela's oil, being the largest proven reserves in the world, isn't a factor.
Good medicine turns poisonous when the dose is too high.