Author Topic: Climate Change  (Read 8004 times)

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Offline Boges

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1155 on: July 16, 2021, 08:05:58 am »
Hours long waits at Tesla’s proprietary chargers will help the other manufacturers.

Tesla sells an adapter for the EV standard J1772 plug.

The Tesla Superchargers are proprietor. This is only in North America. In Europe all cars have to have J1772 ability. Not sure why that's not the law here.

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1156 on: July 16, 2021, 01:56:09 pm »
Boges do you drive a Tesla?

Offline wilber

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1157 on: July 17, 2021, 12:36:28 pm »
Tesla sells an adapter for the EV standard J1772 plug.

The Tesla Superchargers are proprietor. This is only in North America. In Europe all cars have to have J1772 ability. Not sure why that's not the law here.


Propriatory charging systems are not good for making EV's more mainstream.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Boges

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1158 on: July 19, 2021, 08:10:48 am »
Boges do you drive a Tesla?

No I drive an EV from a traditional Automaker.

Offline Boges

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1159 on: July 22, 2021, 08:48:38 am »
Elon has come around on this.

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/263115/20210720/elon-musk-tesla-ev-charger-open-evs-countries-over-time-supercharger.htm

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Elon Musk has claimed that its Tesla EV chargers would soon be available for use of other brands and cars, all over the world, as pioneers of its unique charging connectors. Before this, the CEO said that Tesla was the only EV company that focused on "long-range electric cars." The company had charger stations that would have it as an equivalent to refueling.

In the past years, California was the center of most Tesla Supercharger stations as it is the birthplace of the company and where most of its sales are. However, that would soon change as Tesla plans to build new factories and distibute vehicles and power all over the world.

The J1772 and CCS connectors need to be industry standards across the board.

Heck even an adapter wouldn't be prudent unless I would regularly have access to a Tesla Supercharger.

Offline wilber

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1160 on: August 05, 2021, 11:58:38 am »
That's a good thing and will help to make EV's more desirable.  There should be no proprietary chargers, and there should be no need for adapters other than for plugging in to a wall outlet at home. If a vehicle manufacturer wants to build a network and give its own customers a special deal that's fine but they should be accessible to all.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1161 on: August 05, 2021, 12:10:34 pm »
I was just reading that VW is putting 73 billion Euros (86 billion USD) into EV development and building six battery factories in Europe at a cost of 29 billion USD. They are converting some of their engine factories into battery factories. Also spending half a billion on European charging infrastructure.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1162 on: August 13, 2021, 12:40:01 pm »
National Post: The big looming problem with old EVs: It’s really, really hard to change the battery.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-big-looming-problem-with-old-evs-its-really-really-hard-to-change-the-battery


Given the cost of changing batteries, I think I'll be passing on an EV for some time yet. Of course the thing that sours me the most on buying any new vehicle is much the same as always.

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“Nissan’s not in the business of keeping these things running forever, they want you to come and buy a new car. That’s their business model and it’s not a secret,” said Sale. “They want to make maintaining the old vehicle so cost prohibitive that you just buy a new one.”

There should laws against built-in obsolescence.

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1163 on: August 13, 2021, 01:09:14 pm »
National Post: The big looming problem with old EVs: It’s really, really hard to change the battery.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-big-looming-problem-with-old-evs-its-really-really-hard-to-change-the-battery


Given the cost of changing batteries, I think I'll be passing on an EV for some time yet. Of course the thing that sours me the most on buying any new vehicle is much the same as always.

There should laws against built-in obsolescence.

If I was in the market for a new vehicle, I would certainly need to do the cost analysis much more carefully to decide if an EV is worth it….

Does the fuel savings make up for the cost of battery replacement?   Also, maintenance is much cheaper on EVs.  There are no oil change intervals….  And, generally, repairs should be less. 

But it still may be a cost-neutral proposition in the end with the need for new batteries.

I agree with you that there should be laws to make it simpler to protect consumers.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1164 on: August 16, 2021, 06:09:24 pm »
National Post: The big looming problem with old EVs: It’s really, really hard to change the battery.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-big-looming-problem-with-old-evs-its-really-really-hard-to-change-the-battery
Its not surprising that it is expensive to change a battery. (Given the fact that batteries are usually the most expensive part of the car to begin with, and limited supply.)

But then, its also expensive to change the engine in a conventional gas-powered vehicle. So if someone is overly concerned about the cost of major vehicle repairs, they'd stick to human-powered bicycles. I got rid of my previous car (honda civic, gas-powered) after about 10 years when it started having problem with gaskets (according to the mechanic) and it would be too expensive to fix.

I guess the question is...how often do batteries actually have to be changed. Newer batteries have a much longer life-span, and there are some estimates that a battery pack could last between 10-20 years (longer than many people actually own their car). And when the battery 'fails', it usually doesn't just up-and-die, but it gradually loses the ability to charge. So a battery that is 'failing' still partly works, and the car will still be functional (just requiring more plug-ins).

Offline Boges

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1165 on: August 17, 2021, 10:56:47 am »
If I was in the market for a new vehicle, I would certainly need to do the cost analysis much more carefully to decide if an EV is worth it….

Does the fuel savings make up for the cost of battery replacement?   Also, maintenance is much cheaper on EVs.  There are no oil change intervals….  And, generally, repairs should be less. 

But it still may be a cost-neutral proposition in the end with the need for new batteries.

I agree with you that there should be laws to make it simpler to protect consumers.

Batteries are usually warrantied for 8 years plus. You aren't expected to have to replace an EV battery, and if you do, it'll be under Warranty.

The cars are more expensive, so if you really can't afford a good new car, you won't be able to afford an EV. Hybrids have made it to the used-car market but EVs aren't there yet.

No oil changes or major repairs other than tires or brakes.

The thing people don't realize about using electricity instead of gasoline is how much more efficient it is.

If you have a 50 kwh motor on your EV, you may be spending $5 to charge it. 50 kwh is the equivalent of about 5 litres of gasoline. ICE cars can't come close to that level of efficiency.

Offline wilber

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1166 on: August 17, 2021, 08:24:21 pm »
The problem with batteries is that they are a very inefficient energy storage system. 3 imperial gallons of gasoline weighing 18 lbs contains more energy than a 100 KWH Tesla S battery weighing 1200 lbs.
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Offline Boges

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1167 on: August 18, 2021, 07:55:17 am »
The problem with batteries is that they are a very inefficient energy storage system. 3 imperial gallons of gasoline weighing 18 lbs contains more energy than a 100 KWH Tesla S battery weighing 1200 lbs.

Yes but an ICE can only get, at best, 150-200 kms of range from that 3 gallons.

It's the ICE that's really inefficient. Batteries are getting more efficient all the time, but without Hybrid technology ICE cars haven't been able to achieve mileage better than 6L/100km since the mid aughts.
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1168 on: August 18, 2021, 08:56:19 am »
Quote
No oil changes or major repairs other than tires or brakes.-
And even brakes might not be that expensive, since (I think) they use regenerative braking to convert momentum to electricity to charge the battery (i.e. less use of brake pads, etc.)

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #1169 on: August 18, 2021, 09:02:57 am »
The problem with batteries is that they are a very inefficient energy storage system. 3 imperial gallons of gasoline weighing 18 lbs contains more energy than a 100 KWH Tesla S battery weighing 1200 lbs.
Its true that gas has a much higher Energy Density than storying power in batteries.

However, there are things that offset that:
- Batteries store less energy than a comparable amount of gas, but those batteries can be re-charged. Once that gas is gone, its gone

- Most of the energy in that gas is actually wasted... mostly waste heat from combustion (although things like friction might play a role). If I remember correctly, only ~15% of the energy in gas actually gets used to move the car forward. In the case of electric cars, the efficiency is closer to 75%.
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