Author Topic: Climate Change (Read 28953 times)

BC_cheque · « **Reply #1140 on:** July 10, 2021, 10:33:03 pm »

Quote from: wilber on July 10, 2021, 08:39:10 pm

Except for older Model S and Standard range Model 3's [...]

Which works with what I'm saying. Those cars were made for commuting, not long distance, they should not be on the road to Kelowna and it was bad planning on the part of the people driving them. If you're driving with a 400Km range EV, you should have more options.

My point is that the Hope incident isn't a good reason to not buy EV with today's technology.

wilber · « **Reply #1141 on:** July 10, 2021, 11:39:53 pm »

Quote from: BC_cheque on July 10, 2021, 10:33:03 pm

Which works with what I'm saying. Those cars were made for commuting, not long distance, they should not be on the road to Kelowna and it was bad planning on the part of the people driving them. If you're driving with a 400Km range EV, you should have more options.

My point is that the Hope incident isn't a good reason to not buy EV with today's technology.

It's a good reason not to buy one if you make frequent longer trips unless they are just second cars.

A car with a supposed range of 500 km should easily make it from Vancouver to Kelowna if it really had 500k range. All these cars have systems that constantly monitor power level and predict remaining range. If you next stop is in the nav system and you are charging, they will even send a message to your phone when the charge level is enough to get you to your next stop. Obviously these people were stopping because the computers were saying it was necessary or they were just being prudent. It's not like you can hitch a ride to a gas station to get a can of gas if you run out. If your battery goes flat you call a tow truck.

None of that is really the point, all these people would have had a nice trip if adequate infrastructure was available for them to refuel (charge), but it isn't. Think what it will be like when 50 times the number of these vehicles are on the road and governments are telling use we can't buy ICE powered vehicles.

BC_cheque · « **Reply #1142 on:** July 11, 2021, 12:42:50 pm »

Quote from: wilber on July 08, 2021, 07:48:32 pm

A friend just sent me a photo of the line at the Tesla Supercharger in Hope on the long weekend. Three of the five chargers were down and he waited two and a half hours to charge. The person who took it and sent him the photo left Vancouver at 10:30 AM and got to Kelowna at 7:30 PM for what is normally no more than a 4 1/2 hour drive. But we will all be driving EV's god help us.

Wilber, yes, I don't dispute that range varies and people are dependent on their car's diagnostics, but the post above is what prompted this discussion. In particular, the last sentence. You went on to post a picture of a bunch of Teslas lined up at a Supercharger in Hope.

There are so many things wrong with your conclusion:

1) Your point demonstrates that buying a Tesla and relying only on Tesla superchargers could run into trouble. These people could've bought adapters, but they all assumed that the supercharger would be a faster way to charge their Tesla and were in for a surprise when it wasn't available.

2) The Tesla incident was isolated. Your trip could also get prolonged to an accident on the highway or a flat tire. It doesn't mean you shouldn't buy EV, or even Tesla for that matter, just because there was an isolated incident.

3) I looked into this particular incident. It's interesting because apparently Tesla added 2 supercharging systems over the July long weekend. One in Golden and one in Hope with 12 chargers. The one in Hope is the second site, presumably the first one being the 5 charger station your friend's friend got stuck at. So if the first location had 5, there are now 17 chargers just for Tesla owners! Your friend's friend's bad luck wasn't just isolated, it was exacerbated by incredibly bad timing. https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/tesla-superchargers-in-hope-and-golden-now-open-british-columbia/

So my biggest issue is with your scare-mongering of "But we will all be driving EV's god help us." Please don't make this super freak, already rectified case of bad luck for Tesla owners to make a case against buying EV. Tesla seems to have corrected the lack and non-Tesla owners have plenty of options on the way to Kelowna. There is Hope, Coquihalla, Merrit, and Summerland. More is going up all the time, Petro-Can leading the way with their stations.

Yes, you still need more planning than a gas vehicle, so if you have a second gas car by all means take that for the road trip (obviously) but it doesn't mean you can't road trip with your EV or that you should let road trips get in the way of buying one. It is very possible indeed.

If it's really that tough, at least a PHEV which kicks into hybrid for distance and for everyday use relies mostly on battery. There is very little to buy a gas car in this day and age.

wilber · « **Reply #1143 on:** July 11, 2021, 01:20:01 pm »

Quote from: BC_cheque on July 11, 2021, 12:42:50 pm

Wilber, yes, I don't dispute that range varies and people are dependent on their car's diagnostics, but the post above is what prompted this discussion. In particular, the last sentence. You went on to post a picture of a bunch of Teslas lined up at a Supercharger in Hope.

There are so many things wrong with your conclusion:

1) Your point demonstrates that buying a Tesla and relying only on Tesla superchargers could run into trouble. These people could've bought adapters, but they all assumed that the supercharger would be a faster way to charge their Tesla and were in for a surprise when it wasn't available.

2) The Tesla incident was isolated. Your trip could also get prolonged to an accident on the highway or a flat tire. It doesn't mean you shouldn't buy EV, or even Tesla for that matter, just because there was an isolated incident.

3) I looked into this particular incident. It's interesting because apparently Tesla added 2 supercharging systems over the July long weekend. One in Golden and one in Hope with 12 chargers. The one in Hope is the second site, presumably the first one being the 5 charger station your friend's friend got stuck at. So if the first location had 5, there are now 17 chargers just for Tesla owners! Your friend's friend's bad luck wasn't just isolated, it was exacerbated by incredibly bad timing. https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/tesla-superchargers-in-hope-and-golden-now-open-british-columbia/

So my biggest issue is with your scare-mongering of "But we will all be driving EV's god help us." Please don't make this super freak, already rectified case of bad luck for Tesla owners to make a case against buying EV. Tesla seems to have corrected the lack and non-Tesla owners have plenty of options on the way to Kelowna. There is Hope, Coquihalla, Merrit, and Summerland. More is going up all the time, Petro-Can leading the way with their stations.

Yes, you still need more planning than a gas vehicle, so if you have a second gas car by all means take that for the road trip (obviously) but it doesn't mean you can't road trip with your EV or that you should let road trips get in the way of buying one. It is very possible indeed.

If it's really that tough, at least a PHEV which kicks into hybrid for distance and for everyday use relies mostly on battery. There is very little to buy a gas car in this day and age.

Buying any electric car is problematic, the infrastructure just isn't there for a large number of them if they have to rely on public chargers. 12 chargers Golden you say. if it takes an average of 25 minutes to charge a vehicle to 80% that's a whole 28.8 cars an hour that they are able to charge. Compare that to a single gas station with four pumps. At an average of ten minutes to fill, a single station can refuel 24 cars to 100% full in the same amount of time. How many gas stations are there in Golden?

The one in Hope has 8 chargers but 3 weren't working.

If you go on Plug Share and look at comments for different chargers, you see a lot of, out of order, my app or card wouldn't work etc. Public charging has a very long way to go if EV's are to replace a majority of ICE vehicles.

I'm actually quite interested in EV's and if I buy another new car there is a real chance it will be one but I don't buy into all the Kool Aid surrounding them because there are real compromises to owning one. If your driving is urban and you can do almost all your charging at home that's great but if you are going to do road trips you will need to plan, your trip will take longer and don't do it on a long weekend.

On Edit.

I just looked at the Tesla website and it says there are 10 Superchargers in Hope, 8 in Merritt and 8 in Kelowna. Maybe it hasn't been updated but it only shows 4 in Kamloops, Revelstoke and Golden.

Squidward von Squidderson · « **Reply #1144 on:** July 11, 2021, 10:06:26 pm »

Who says we have enough infrastructure for EVs? Clearly we don’t. Clearly the supply isn’t keeping up with demand. Government should intervene and ensure the infrastructure is available.

Queefer Sutherland · « **Reply #1145 on:** July 11, 2021, 11:42:21 pm »

Quote from: the_squid on July 11, 2021, 10:06:26 pm

Who says we have enough infrastructure for EVs? Clearly we don’t. Clearly the supply isn’t keeping up with demand. Government should intervene and ensure the infrastructure is available.

Seeing more charging stations everywhere would definitely make more people want to buy an EV.

However, if EV companies see lineups like this they will be motivated to create more charging stations simply to take advantage and make more money. Supply almost always meets demand in the private sector unless there is some kind of scarcity bottleneck in the supply chain, or gov't red tape (in the case of housing). Maybe it was just one really busy summer weekend in the most environmentally-conscious province in the country. I don't think infrastructure will be a worry, I keep seeing more of it. But the gov should keep an eye on it, and encourage more.

I think the main barrier will remain cost of the EVs themselves, but they'll come down.

BC_cheque · « **Reply #1146 on:** July 12, 2021, 02:28:34 am »

Agreed, it's a vicious circle with people citing lack of infrastructure for not buying EV and EV infrastructure not keeping pace because not enough people are on board yet. With increased demand, there will be more supply.

I disagree though that the issue is with EV's themselves. In 2018 EV's made up 4% of all car sales in BC. 2020 it was 9%. By 2025 it'll be 20%.

Things are changing very quickly.

eyeball · « **Reply #1147 on:** July 12, 2021, 10:39:59 am »

The solution is to reduce the need for so many EV's and infrastructure. Discourage the ownership of individual vehicles- Google one up when you need one and walk away from it when you're done. Another way to reduce infrastructure and the number vehicles clogging roads will be delivery of goods by drone. Soon after that you'll be able to Google up a passenger drone.

Boges · « **Reply #1148 on:** July 12, 2021, 12:09:14 pm »

Quote from: the_squid on July 11, 2021, 10:06:26 pm

Who says we have enough infrastructure for EVs? Clearly we don’t. Clearly the supply isn’t keeping up with demand. Government should intervene and ensure the infrastructure is available.

Except for Toyota and Honda, all other Car makers are making their EV their flagship car.

But yeah, demand is not there. Enough people are still fine buying a run-of-the-mill Compact SUV as their new car. As these Carbon Taxes ramp up, that'll change.

I don't know why anyone, who can afford one, wouldn't want an EV right now. But Battery technology needs to catch up.

Boges · « **Reply #1149 on:** July 12, 2021, 12:11:41 pm »

Quote from: eyeball on July 12, 2021, 10:39:59 am

The solution is to reduce the need for so many EV's and infrastructure. Discourage the ownership of individual vehicles- Google one up when you need one and walk away from it when you're done. Another way to reduce infrastructure and the number vehicles clogging roads will be delivery of goods by drone. Soon after that you'll be able to Google up a passenger drone.

COVID has blown the idea of living in a work centre out of the water. Live where you want. You don't need to take the Train to a centralized location.

Personal vehicles provide a level of freedom people want. Also Ride-sharing isn't financially viable for most people or companies.

Boges · « **Reply #1150 on:** July 12, 2021, 12:26:23 pm »

Quote from: BC_cheque on July 11, 2021, 12:42:50 pm

Wilber, yes, I don't dispute that range varies and people are dependent on their car's diagnostics, but the post above is what prompted this discussion. In particular, the last sentence. You went on to post a picture of a bunch of Teslas lined up at a Supercharger in Hope.

There are so many things wrong with your conclusion:

1) Your point demonstrates that buying a Tesla and relying only on Tesla superchargers could run into trouble. These people could've bought adapters, but they all assumed that the supercharger would be a faster way to charge their Tesla and were in for a surprise when it wasn't available.

2) The Tesla incident was isolated. Your trip could also get prolonged to an accident on the highway or a flat tire. It doesn't mean you shouldn't buy EV, or even Tesla for that matter, just because there was an isolated incident.

3) I looked into this particular incident. It's interesting because apparently Tesla added 2 supercharging systems over the July long weekend. One in Golden and one in Hope with 12 chargers. The one in Hope is the second site, presumably the first one being the 5 charger station your friend's friend got stuck at. So if the first location had 5, there are now 17 chargers just for Tesla owners! Your friend's friend's bad luck wasn't just isolated, it was exacerbated by incredibly bad timing. https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/tesla-superchargers-in-hope-and-golden-now-open-british-columbia/

So my biggest issue is with your scare-mongering of "But we will all be driving EV's god help us." Please don't make this super freak, already rectified case of bad luck for Tesla owners to make a case against buying EV. Tesla seems to have corrected the lack and non-Tesla owners have plenty of options on the way to Kelowna. There is Hope, Coquihalla, Merrit, and Summerland. More is going up all the time, Petro-Can leading the way with their stations.

Yes, you still need more planning than a gas vehicle, so if you have a second gas car by all means take that for the road trip (obviously) but it doesn't mean you can't road trip with your EV or that you should let road trips get in the way of buying one. It is very possible indeed.

If it's really that tough, at least a PHEV which kicks into hybrid for distance and for everyday use relies mostly on battery. There is very little to buy a gas car in this day and age.

Governments should mandate EV charging stations at all Rest Stops. Right now you only get them at select gas stations and public parking lots.

I have a bit of a road trip planned this month where I'll have to stop with my EV. There are apps where you can plan it out, but if someone's using the stop, you're kind of effed.

For long Road Trips, you still really need a Gas Car.

wilber · « **Reply #1151 on:** July 12, 2021, 12:47:16 pm »

Quote from: eyeball on July 12, 2021, 10:39:59 am

The solution is to reduce the need for so many EV's and infrastructure. Discourage the ownership of individual vehicles- Google one up when you need one and walk away from it when you're done. Another way to reduce infrastructure and the number vehicles clogging roads will be delivery of goods by drone. Soon after that you'll be able to Google up a passenger drone.

Just what we want, a sky full of drones falling out of the sky when they run into each other. There will be no fender benders with passenger drones, only fatalities.

The energy required to keep an object airborne is much greater than moving it across a solid surface.

eyeball · « **Reply #1152 on:** July 13, 2021, 02:12:05 pm »

Quote from: wilber on July 12, 2021, 12:47:16 pm

Just what we want, a sky full of drones falling out of the sky when they run into each other. There will be no fender benders with passenger drones, only fatalities.

The energy required to keep an object airborne is much greater than moving it across a solid surface.

Point taken. The movie Fifth Element with streams of flying cars comes to mind.

BC_cheque · « **Reply #1153 on:** July 16, 2021, 12:35:12 am »

Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on July 09, 2021, 08:17:00 pm

F*** Tesla. Trendy consumer items are so annoying. I'm the least bourgie person alive. EVs won't go well if Tesla has a grip on the tech, we need people driving Honda and Toyota and Ford EVs etc. We need prices to drop, not trendy expensive EVs like how Apple phones and laptops are so expensive for what you get.

I'm in the market for a new car and I have test driven the Leaf, Kona, Ioniq and Niro... pretty much all the ones that qualify for the rebate except Mini and Bolt because they're way too small.

I've had a similar outlook as you that f-ck Tesla. They're everywhere, pretentious and Elon Musk is an idiot and I don't want to give him my money. However, I decided that if I'm I am seriously considering an EV, I need to at least test drive the Model 3.

My appointment was today. I pulled up to the dealer and it looked like something out of the Jetsons with all the Teslas bopping around. Gah, so annoying. It was so busy in there, people from all walks of life and I waited forever even though I had a booked appointment.

Now I have driven one, I can honestly and humbly say that I was dead wrong. All the other car I mentioned were similar but the Model 3 is in a class of its own. I am blown away with how beautiful it drives and feels. It felt like I floated in a dream and came back.

It's incredible that it's the same price as a Leaf or Kona. It's not that either of those two drive bad, on the contrary they're pretty strong cars, but the Tesla experience was surreal.

If the Hyundai's and Nissans want to seriously compete and not allow Tesla to monopolize the market (if it's not too late that is), they better step it up with the price point. I can't see why anyone would spend 50K on a Kona when they can have a Tesla for that amount.

Squidward von Squidderson · « **Reply #1154 on:** July 16, 2021, 01:11:05 am »

Hours long waits at Tesla’s proprietary chargers will help the other manufacturers.

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Author Topic: Climate Change (Read 28953 times)

BC_cheque

Re: Climate Change

wilber

Re: Climate Change

BC_cheque

Re: Climate Change

wilber

Re: Climate Change

Squidward von Squidderson

Re: Climate Change

Queefer Sutherland

Re: Climate Change

BC_cheque

Re: Climate Change

eyeball

Re: Climate Change

Boges

Re: Climate Change

Boges

Re: Climate Change

Boges

Re: Climate Change

wilber

Re: Climate Change

eyeball

Re: Climate Change

BC_cheque

Re: Climate Change

Squidward von Squidderson

Re: Climate Change