Author Topic: Climate Change  (Read 28557 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #360 on: March 19, 2019, 03:51:33 pm »
Astronomers would disagree.

Not to mention seafarers who can't afford a GPS.

Offline waldo

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #361 on: April 06, 2019, 12:36:19 pm »
hey poochy... re: your stated, "How to lie with statistics" - how so poochy, how so?

that study: Canada’s Changing Climate Report

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There is very high confidence that temperature datasets are sufficiently reliable for computing regional averages of temperature for southern Canada from 1900 to present and for northern Canada from 1948 to present.

Both past and future warming in Canada is, on average, about double the magnitude of global warming. Northern Canada has warmed and will continue to warm at even more than double the global rate. {4.2}

Temperature has increased in all regions of Canada and in the surrounding oceans. Since 1948, when nation-wide records became available, Canada’s annual average temperature over land has warmed by a best estimate of 1.7°C, with higher temperature increases observed in the North, the Prairies, and northern British Columbia. Annual average temperature over northern Canada increased by 2.3°C since 1948. The greatest warming has occurred in winter. {4.2}

Observed changes (°C) in annual temperature across Canada between 1948 and 2016


That study could have been titled, How to lie with statistics.

No doubt just a coincidence it appeared the same day the carbon tax was inflicted.
And a recent study showed that Canada is warming at a faster rate than other countries.

But whatever, let's continue turning Alberta into the surface of the Moon.
Liberal government climate change propoganda "leaked" to CBC News the day the carbon tax goes into effect. This is utterly disgusting.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/canada-warming-at-twice-the-global-rate-leaked-report-finds-1.5079765
It looks like the government in power used Environment Canada to create a report in order to sell the public on their carbon tax policy, and then it was "leaked" to CBC News and put as the #1 headline on the site the same day the carbon tax went into effect.  How is that a coincidence? This should disturb everyone regardless of party or ideology, and regardless of what anyone feels about the science or the carbon tax.

Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #362 on: April 06, 2019, 03:23:16 pm »
And now that the ice is all melting the Russian, for one, are racing up to their northern shores to A: build a number of military bases, and B: drill for ever more oil. Obviously Putin couldn't care less about the planets future, he just wants to cash in any way he can right now.

The race for the Arctic is heating up, as the region's estimated huge oil and gas reserves are expected to become more accessible as climate change accelerates the rate of ice melt.
Putin has described the Arctic as "the most important region that will provide for the future of Russia" and created a new Ministry for Far East and Arctic Development. In a presidential decree issued shortly after his 2018 inauguration, Putin ordered a tenfold increase of shipping traffic via Northern Sea Route by 2024.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/04/europe/russia-arctic-kotelny-island-military-base/index.html

Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #363 on: April 07, 2019, 04:08:43 am »
Nothing can be done about climate change.  Anyone who thinks differently is naive, and has no understanding of human nature.

Call me cynical, but the only way to stop climate change is to eliminate 2/3 of the human population.
If Omni, Impact, and the_squid ever had a love child, I would be him
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Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #364 on: April 07, 2019, 06:48:05 am »
Nothing can be done about climate change.  Anyone who thinks differently is naive, and has no understanding of human nature.

Call me cynical, but the only way to stop climate change is to eliminate 2/3 of the human population.

Leadership convinced people that there were gods, so convincing them of something real should be easier.  We just need the generation of the selfish mindset to die off completely (ie. mine).

Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #365 on: April 07, 2019, 09:55:21 am »
Leadership convinced people that there were gods, so convincing them of something real should be easier.  We just need the generation of the selfish mindset to die off completely (ie. mine).

Never going to happen, unfortunately...
If Omni, Impact, and the_squid ever had a love child, I would be him

Offline TimG

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #366 on: April 07, 2019, 10:17:33 am »
We just need the generation of the selfish mindset to die off completely (ie. mine).
The "selfish mindset" can be found in most people who claim to care about climate change but only if that means people other than them are expected to pay the costs of the regulations they advocate. The so called "selfish" mindset of the old often comes from an understanding of how the world works and what is possible and what is not possible. It is more fatalism than selfishness.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 10:19:31 am by TimG »

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #367 on: April 07, 2019, 10:57:33 am »
Never going to happen, unfortunately...

Sure.  The generation before boomers was community minded too. This will pass.

Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #368 on: April 07, 2019, 11:45:17 am »
Nothing can be done about climate change.  Anyone who thinks differently is naive, and has no understanding of human nature.

Call me cynical, but the only way to stop climate change is to eliminate 2/3 of the human population.

How about eliminating coal fired power plants. How about eliminating the more than 1 billion cars driving around spewing exhaust and replacing at least a portion with EV.s. We have the technology so why not use it instead of, as MH points out below, being duped like the religious folks.
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Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #369 on: April 07, 2019, 03:19:39 pm »
The "selfish mindset" can be found in most people who claim to care about climate change but only if that means people other than them are expected to pay the costs of the regulations they advocate. The so called "selfish" mindset of the old often comes from an understanding of how the world works and what is possible and what is not possible. It is more fatalism than selfishness.

I think the 'selfish mindset' is more typically likely to project that all folks are motivated by selfish motives. They often expect that the 'normal' response to a situation is to give nothing to help the community.


Offline TimG

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #370 on: April 07, 2019, 03:28:21 pm »
I think the 'selfish mindset' is more typically likely to project that all folks are motivated by selfish motives. They often expect that the 'normal' response to a situation is to give nothing to help the community.
I am simply stating facts. Climate chicken-littles always want to destroy other peoples livelihoods. They never volunteer to destroy their own. This is human nature. In BC we have the  LNG and coal exports not mention a rapid increase in cargo shipping yet many of the people opposing trans-mountain say nothing about CO2 emissions or whales when BC jobs are at stake. People are fundamentally selfish whether you want to acknowledge it or not. So please don't try to pretend that climate chicken littles are altruists. It is nonsense and you know it. People only care about climate change as long as they are not asked to make big sacrifices. There is numerous polls that support that last statement.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2015/01/01/people-will-pay-to-stop-climate-change-but-only-5/#7944fc8423e4

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People who worry about human-caused climate change are willing to pay higher energy bills to help stop it, but only up to 5 percent higher, or about $5 on the average American energy bill, according to a Harvard political scientist who has conducted a comprehensive survey of attitudes toward energy and climate for the last 12 years.
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"People are not willing to really put their dollars—even people who say they are concerned about global warming—are not willing to put their dollars where their hearts are," Ansolabehere told a gathering of climate scientists
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 03:39:52 pm by TimG »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #371 on: April 07, 2019, 03:37:14 pm »
I am simply stating facts. Climate chicken-littles always want to destroy other peoples livelihoods. They never volunteer to destroy their own. This is human nature. In BC we have the  LNG and coal exports not mention a rapid increase in cargo shipping yet many of the people opposing trans-mountain say nothing about CO2 emissions or whales when BC jobs are at stake. People are fundamentally selfish whether you want to acknowledge it or not. So please don't try to pretend that climate chicken littles are altruists. It is nonsense and you know it. People only care about climate change as long as they are not asked to make big sacrifices. There is numerous polls that support that last statement.

So you don't think peoples livelihoods will be "destroyed" when we suck that last bbl of oil out of the ground? That is going to happen even if you put you hands over your eyes and your fingers in your ears. Why not plan for that day before it arrives, and maybe we save a lot of lives, not just livelihoods in the process.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #372 on: April 07, 2019, 03:41:20 pm »
So you don't think peoples livelihoods will be "destroyed" when we suck that last bbl of oil out of the ground? That is going to happen even if you put you hands over your eyes and your fingers in your ears. Why not plan for that day before it arrives, and maybe we save a lot of lives, not just livelihoods in the process.
Overpopulation is a biggest concern. What are you willing to do about that? Oh right. Absolutely nothing. I guess I should call you an overpopulation denier.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #373 on: April 07, 2019, 03:46:45 pm »
Overpopulation is a biggest concern. What are you willing to do about that? Oh right. Absolutely nothing. I guess I should call you an overpopulation denier.

Yes, all (Jews, Cambodian Viets/Chinese/Cham/Lao/Thai, Tutsis, non-whites, etc.) should be eliminated and that will solve all our problems.
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Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #374 on: April 07, 2019, 03:51:08 pm »
I am simply stating facts.

This is not a fact: "most people who claim to care about climate change but only if that means people other than them are expected to pay the costs of the regulations they advocate"  It's an opinion on group values.  It's like if I *were* to say "most rich people don't care if they destroy the planet".

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Climate chicken-littles always want to destroy other peoples livelihoods. They never volunteer to destroy their own. This is human nature. In BC we have the  LNG and coal exports not mention a rapid increase in cargo shipping yet many of the people opposing trans-mountain say nothing about CO2 emissions or whales when BC jobs are at stake.

And yet, people who are concerned about climate change aren't fussing about a 5 cent hike on gas while others are protesting loudly.

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People are fundamentally selfish whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

it's a topic that is the subject of many discussions over the ages.  If it's partially true, people are also altruistic and the interplay between those human characteristics define how societies work.

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So please don't try to pretend that climate chicken littles are altruists. It is nonsense and you know it.

Also claiming that I "know" that your group value opinion is bizarre.  The implication is that I'm on here lying, I guess.

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People only care about climate change as long as they are not asked to make big sacrifices. There is numerous polls that support that last statement.

Ok... The carbon tax is pay now vs. pay later.  The big sacrifices are in converting to new energy sources, reducing CO2.  What is the estimate again ?  I think it's less than 5% of GDP.