Author Topic: Climate Change  (Read 28550 times)

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Offline TimG

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #195 on: November 23, 2018, 06:13:07 pm »
"force these fossil fuel plants to curtail production when renewable production is high (at great cost)"... and now, again, in this latest post you're beaking off about regulation forcing production curtailment. Citation request.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601514/germany-runs-up-against-the-limits-of-renewables/

Quote
The auction system is designed to reduce the rate of new renewable-energy additions and keep Germany from producing too much power. It might seem like an easy way to solve the oversupply issue would be to shut down excess power plants, especially ones that burn coal. But not only are the coal plants used to even out periods when wind and solar aren’t available, they’re also lucrative and thus politically hard to shut down. Because German law requires renewable energy to be used first on the German grid, when Germany exports excess electricity to its European neighbors it primarily comes from coal plants. Last fall, the German subsidiary of the Swedish energy giant Vattenfall started up a 1,600-megwatt coal-fired plant that had been under construction for eight years, defying opposition from politicians, environmental organizations, and citizens who want to see coal plants eliminated.

Offline waldo

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #196 on: November 23, 2018, 07:01:52 pm »
BFD - you've tried this same ploy over on the other board... and you were shown just how Germany has/is successfully handling renewables integration and grid management. Until higher renewables penetration rates are realized, integration is managed with little to no impact on grid design. Given the highest penetration rates reached, Germany has had to somewhat pioneer renewables integration management in terms of, hardware, grid extension, transport, interconnections, balancing, building on grid 'smartness', technical innovation/etc.. Example:

- WindNODE – Showcase Intelligent Energy in Northeastern Germany:
 
=> https://reiner-lemoine-institut.de/en/windnode-schaufenster-fuer-intelligente-energie-nordostdeutschland/

=> https://www.50hertz.com/en/News/FullarticleNewsof50Hertz/id/5902/utilisation-before-limitation-windnode-flexibility-platform-begins-trial-operation



guest7

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #197 on: November 27, 2018, 01:16:26 pm »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #198 on: November 27, 2018, 01:39:53 pm »
Well, it's not looking good...

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46347453

And it could look a lot worse if Trump has his way. Fortunately I doubt he will.

"Coal isn’t the future of the American economy – it’s renewable energy. The sooner Donald Trump realizes that, the better"

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/apr/12/donald-trump-coal-mining-renewable-energy

Offline TimG

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #199 on: November 27, 2018, 01:40:32 pm »
Well, it's not looking good...
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46347453
It is unfolding exactly as I said it would. We can't do anything of substance about CO2 so preening politicians make pronouncements they have no intention of keeping while they know the task of breaking those promises will fall to a future politician. We also have politicians wasting billions on pointless exercises so they can pretend to do something while nothing actually changes.
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guest7

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #200 on: November 27, 2018, 01:47:15 pm »
It is unfolding exactly as I said it would. We can't do anything of substance about CO2 so preening politicians make pronouncements they have no intention of keeping while they know the task of breaking those promises will fall to a future politician. We also have politicians wasting billions on pointless exercises so they can pretend to do something while nothing actually changes.

Very pretty report though.  I was put in mind of the pointy haired boss telling Dilbert to make it nice and colourful so people won't feel too bad when they read it.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #201 on: November 27, 2018, 03:47:13 pm »
That is not exactly true when the plants need to be kept in standby mode so they can supply power immediately when renewables drop off.

We are not in the age of coal boiling water any more. Gas turbines spin up from cold very quickly. Stored hydro is also almost instant on.

Offline TimG

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #202 on: November 27, 2018, 04:23:48 pm »
We are not in the age of coal boiling water any more. Gas turbines spin up from cold very quickly. Stored hydro is also almost instant on.
Works great if you don't have to import gas from Russia. Geo-political conflicts and energy security matter which is why countries will favour power sources that allow them to minimize dependence on imports. The need for energy security will always be more important than CO2 reductions.

Furthermore, those natural gas plants need to be built along with the pipelines to supply gas. This requires a minimum number of hours of operation to make them economic. Germany has discovered that if you simply tell fossil fuel plants that they must pay the cost of renewables they will close and the system will collapse. So now Germany has to subsidize fossil fuel plants because they cannot afford to let them dissappear.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 04:29:17 pm by TimG »

Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #203 on: November 27, 2018, 04:45:54 pm »
We are not in the age of coal boiling water any more. Gas turbines spin up from cold very quickly. Stored hydro is also almost instant on.

I assume the "over 40" naysayers will continue to ignore the science. Luckily the more educated are dealing with what's actually happening.

guest7

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #204 on: November 27, 2018, 04:51:38 pm »
I assume the "over 40" naysayers will continue to ignore the science. Luckily the more educated are dealing with what's actually happening.

Yeah, you can tell that's the case from the report there.  Optimistic stuff.

God only knows where we would be if they weren't dealing with it!
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Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #205 on: November 27, 2018, 04:58:59 pm »
Yeah, you can tell that's the case from the report there.  Optimistic stuff.

God only knows where we would be if they weren't dealing with it!

God knows where we will be if we don't deal with it.

guest7

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #206 on: November 27, 2018, 05:04:13 pm »
God knows where we will be if we don't deal with it.

Sure, but before long she won't be the only one.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #207 on: November 27, 2018, 05:12:36 pm »
Sure, but before long she won't be the only one.

You just bounce along there l'il buddy. Grown ups will take care of it.
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guest7

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #208 on: November 27, 2018, 05:14:10 pm »
You just bounce along there l'il buddy. Grown ups will take care of it.

I don't think they will.  I think you're a bit delusional.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Climate Change
« Reply #209 on: November 27, 2018, 05:17:33 pm »
As I posted in an article earlier in this thread....   the latest tactic by climate change deniers is to deny there is anything that can be done, since denying that it is actually takes place makes you look like a complete buffoon. 
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