Author Topic: China USA Trade War  (Read 926 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2018, 09:20:58 am »
Good point, I doubt Trump understands it either.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2018, 09:44:20 am »
I'm getting a disconnect, and also no response other than BCCs.  Now I'm wondering if I am missing something, or if we all are:

When Apple China sells iPhones in China there should be no tariff applied right ?

When Apple China sells iPhones back to the USA there should be tariffs applied right ?

This is the part of the trade imbalance I never understand: that it includes multinational American companies located in China.  So they operate as domestic companies, branch plants of US Corporations, but the profits to back to their US corporations.

This is why I'm wondering how much of the trade imbalance actually helps blue chip American companies.

I remember reading about car companies getting around China’s high tariffs on cars (~20%) by building them there so yes, it would hurt a lot of the multi national US companies.

This could all be a distraction though, Trump style. His administration is saying there’s room for negotiation even though Trump is staying defiant. He’s hopefully not that stupid.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-china-retaliates-unveils-additional-tariffs-on-50-billion-of-us/
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 09:46:28 am by BC_cheque »

Offline wilber

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2018, 10:32:11 am »
I doubt there is any intellectual property involved but I notice none of the products made by Trump companies in China are subject to the tariffs. About the only thing he does have made in the US are his Make America Great Again hats.
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Offline waldo

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2018, 10:48:57 am »
This is why I'm wondering how much of the trade imbalance actually helps blue chip American companies.

can't find the numbers at this time... showed as significant in a past review/discussion: those 'blue-chip' American companies send significant raw materials/goods to China for manufacturing intent... impacting on the jobs/livelihoods of many hundreds of thousands of American workers - where the finished Chinese products are tagged as imports in that U.S. "balance equation". Tagged but never really emphasized/discussed openly by Trump et al.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2018, 11:36:19 am »
You already got Apple's $18B, but there's also Boeing at $12B (13% of all its revenue), Caterpillar (21.5% of revenue), and several others that sells processors to tech companies (Intel, Texas Instruments etc). 

Their stocks all fell today.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/04/news/companies/china-tariffs-us-multinational-sales/index.html

And rose today. Actually Apple wound up finishing higher yesterday. I read that almost five million jobs in China depend on Apple. Is China going to screw around with Apple so they start closing down plants in China? Unlikely. Boeing now has plants in China, but more to the point China needs new aircraft, lots of them, and there's no other supplier who can pick up the slack if they don't buy from Boeing. There's airbus, but that would mean years of waiting on top of the time they're already waiting.

What China needs to do is put an end to the mass production of forged goods; everything from purses to DVDs both for domestic consumption and export. And it needs to stop protecting domestic manufacturers who are clearly using patented technology stolen from their western competition. But the mindset of the Chinese has always been that they'll get away with anything and everything they can get away with. They know that the attention of western politicians is fleeting, and will make pleasing sounds and agreements until their attention is on something else and then go right back to doing what they were doing.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline wilber

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2018, 11:50:01 am »
Certainly Chinese tariffs will make goods more expensive for Chinese just as US tariffs will make them more expensive for Americans.  Cars are interesting. The US is no longer the biggest market, China is.

Might be good for Bombardier.
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Offline waldo

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2018, 11:52:06 am »
But the mindset of the Chinese has always been that they'll get away with anything and everything they can get away with. They know that the attention of western politicians is fleeting, and will make pleasing sounds and agreements until their attention is on something else and then go right back to doing what they were doing.

your posts on this subject, per your norm, lack any cite/substantiation... and broader knowledge. China has a vested interest in (further) forging its relatively new membership within the WTO... reinforcing its compliance. In that regard the U.S. has leveraged the WTO dispute mechanism to bring complaints against China forward... in some of those complaints, to secure significant changes from China. For all your unsubstantiated charges against China, has the U.S. brought actual complaint forward to the WTO - if not, why not?

Offline wilber

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2018, 11:58:32 am »
The US prohibits bringing knockoffs into the country. Canada doesn't for personal use, you just aren't supposed to resell them.

I think knockoffs are more of a problem for the unwary consumer than they are for manufacturers.

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Offline wilber

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2018, 12:05:14 pm »
your posts on this subject, per your norm, lack any cite/substantiation... and broader knowledge. China has a vested interest in (further) forging its relatively new membership within the WTO... reinforcing its compliance. In that regard the U.S. has leveraged the WTO dispute mechanism to bring complaints against China forward... in some of those complaints, to secure significant changes from China. For all your unsubstantiated charges against China, has the U.S. brought actual complaint forward to the WTO - if not, why not?

TPP was supposed to provide a large counterweight to China, increasing leverage by dealing with China as a huge trading block. Trump's seems to think the US is stronger acting alone.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2018, 12:52:47 pm »
Boeing now has plants in China, but more to the point China needs new aircraft, lots of them, and there's no other supplier who can pick up the slack if they don't buy from Boeing. There's airbus, but that would mean years of waiting on top of the time they're already waiting.

What about Bombardier? They may not have the larger international planes, but China must have a large demand for regional jets.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2018, 04:07:22 pm »
The US prohibits bringing knockoffs into the country. Canada doesn't for personal use, you just aren't supposed to resell them.

I think knockoffs are more of a problem for the unwary consumer than they are for manufacturers.

It's not like they identify themselves as knockoffs. Oh, you're banning the GPS devices from the Ping-Won company? No problem. Suddenly their new label says from the Quin Kwan company. Oh, you're banning them. Well now they're made in Vietnam by the Kim-Po company.

And it's not like Chinese companies can't make ready use of stolen technology in their products and simply sell them elsewhere.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2018, 04:08:26 pm »
What about Bombardier? They may not have the larger international planes, but China must have a large demand for regional jets.

China wants aircraft that carry large numbers of people. Have you seen what their highways look like? Bombardier's smaller regional jets carry far fewer passengers. Besides, China has really been laying down the track for its expanding high speed rail service. That tends to lessen the need for regional aircraft.

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2018, 04:14:54 pm »
China wants aircraft that carry large numbers of people. Have you seen what their highways look like? Bombardier's smaller regional jets carry far fewer passengers. Besides, China has really been laying down the track for its expanding high speed rail service. That tends to lessen the need for regional aircraft.

Actually China's projected growth of their commercial aircraft fleet calls for three quarters of it to be single aisle airplanes due to the growth of domestic travel. Boeing and Airbus are hot for China market.

Offline wilber

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2018, 04:15:45 pm »
Not completely, Chinese airlines are looking at replacing B737-300's and looking at the 737 Max. Boeing sees the C Series as a direct threat to the max and why they tried to get big tariffs put on them.
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Offline wilber

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Re: China USA Trade War
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2018, 04:20:00 pm »
With Bombardier now in bed with Airbus on the C, Boeing is probably getting a bit nervous.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC