Author Topic: Afghanistan  (Read 1401 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Afghanistan
« on: August 14, 2021, 09:26:26 pm »
Who didn't see this military and human rights debacle coming 20 years ago? Warhacks can be as hopelessly wooly-headed as any bleeding heart when it comes to splaining why we needed to be in Afghanistan. The reasons changed like the seasons but more often than not they usually focused on our need to help Afghan school girls. That being the case I said, some 10 years ago, every returning empty Canadian military transport plane should have been stuffed with Afghan school girls.

Of course that's when the bleeding hearts switched to being wooly-headed as it was explained we wouldn't need to because we went to win, not run away when the going got tough.  Sure...hows that working out btw? And no, I don't take any joy in being right. I'm as ashamed as anyone about how many school girls will likely die as a result of our interference in Afghanistan's affairs.

It should have been Saudi Arabia that was invaded in retaliation for what happened on 9/11. There wasn't a single Afghan amongst the hijackers.

If at first you don't succeed then try try again I was always told.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 09:28:15 pm by eyeball »

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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 10:40:18 pm »
Who didn't see this military and human rights debacle coming 20 years ago? Warhacks can be as hopelessly wooly-headed as any bleeding heart when it comes to splaining why we needed to be in Afghanistan. The reasons changed like the seasons but more often than not they usually focused on our need to help Afghan school girls. That being the case I said, some 10 years ago, every returning empty Canadian military transport plane should have been stuffed with Afghan school girls.

Of course that's when the bleeding hearts switched to being wooly-headed as it was explained we wouldn't need to because we went to win, not run away when the going got tough.  Sure...hows that working out btw? And no, I don't take any joy in being right. I'm as ashamed as anyone about how many school girls will likely die as a result of our interference in Afghanistan's affairs.

It should have been Saudi Arabia that was invaded in retaliation for what happened on 9/11. There wasn't a single Afghan amongst the hijackers.

If at first you don't succeed then try try again I was always told.

The Taliban could have just handed over Bin Laden to the US.  That would have saved a lot of time and effort.  And lives.  All those schoolgirls would be fine now. 

You know, they don't have to kill them.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 11:14:11 pm »
20 years of war accomplished….  Nada.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2021, 04:25:10 pm »
Iraq war was so bad that to show yourself a moderate, you had to compare it to Afghanistan where there was at least a bit of legitimacy.  I thought Afghanistan was a bad idea from the start, long before it was cool to say so out loud.

Germany and Japan turned into examples of successful nation building but I think it's high time to accept that those two were the exceptions to the rule and Africa, Middle East and South America are better examples of meddling in other nations.

Will we ever learn?  I doubt it, eurocentrism has no limits in its arrogance. 

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2021, 04:26:43 pm »
The Taliban could have just handed over Bin Laden to the US.  That would have saved a lot of time and effort.  And lives.  All those schoolgirls would be fine now. 

You know, they don't have to kill them.


Thing is, we know they suck.  Nobody ever argued otherwise.

The idea that we can turn them into something else through war and occupation is where the disagreements arise.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2021, 04:41:59 pm »

Thing is, we know they suck.  Nobody ever argued otherwise.

The idea that we can turn them into something else through war and occupation is where the disagreements arise.

Yeah, I would have just killed them all and put the women in charge.
Time for bed said Zebedee...
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2021, 04:43:33 pm »
I like your approach.  My heart breaks for Afghanistan. 

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2021, 04:58:01 pm »
Iraq war was so bad that to show yourself a moderate, you had to compare it to Afghanistan where there was at least a bit of legitimacy.  I thought Afghanistan was a bad idea from the start, long before it was cool to say so out loud.

Germany and Japan turned into examples of successful nation building but I think it's high time to accept that those two were the exceptions to the rule and Africa, Middle East and South America are better examples of meddling in other nations.

Will we ever learn?  I doubt it, eurocentrism has no limits in its arrogance.

The thing about Germany and Japan is that they were the losers in the last real war we had.  An aggressor leaving his country to attack other countries, and finally being beaten back to surrender by every means possible.  Including nuclear weapons.  There had to be nation building because there was nothing left of the previous nations.

Since then the wars we have fought have all been to prevent something from happening.  A rise in Communism, more Islamic terrorism, etc.  If you are just going to go into someone's country and fight the war there, you really don't stand a chance.  No way of telling friend from foe, no way of hurting the enemy without possibly hurting a friend.  Fighting guerillas on their turf, according to their timelines but unable to fight under their rules.  You're right.  There is an arrogance there that should have been beaten out of western military leaders after Vietnam.

Winning hearts and minds?  Give me a break.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 05:37:15 pm by bcsapper »
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline Boges

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2021, 10:10:38 am »
Certain objectives were met.

Al Qaeda isn't a thing anymore. In fact, who really fears Fundamentalist Islam right now? Western Right-Wingers are the bigger threat TBH.

That being said, If I was an Afghanistan vet, it would feel like my sacrifices were for nothing. I can imagine a WW1 vet feeling the same way as Blitzkreig steamed across Western Europe.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2021, 09:19:05 pm »
The Taliban now controls American bases with probably hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons that were given to the Afghan government. 

Americans armed an Islamic extremist government that will be bent on destroying opposition within their country and will be able to do so handily with all the shiny armaments!

Offline Boges

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2021, 08:33:16 am »
The Taliban now controls American bases with probably hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons that were given to the Afghan government. 

Americans armed an Islamic extremist government that will be bent on destroying opposition within their country and will be able to do so handily with all the shiny armaments!

For the second time.

Offline eyeball

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2021, 10:52:11 am »
Perhaps there's a little room for some benefit of doubt.

Quote
By all accounts, the mostly young men had the hallmarks of the same Taliban of 1996, traditional clothes, beards, kohl-rimmed eyes and guns at their side.

Taliban fighters with smartphones

But there was one glaring difference between these men and their predecessors, each held a smartphone and was busy taking selfies with murals of the nation’s one-hundredth independence celebration behind them.

Al Jazeera English: Kabul near standstill on day one of the Taliban’s ‘Emirate’.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/16/kabul-near-standstill-on-day-one-the-talibans-emirate

I guess it's possible we've been conditioned to believe we'd be seeing images similar to what occurred under ISIS, mass executions and public beheadings, but perhaps not. Maybe the worst for Afghanistan is actually behind it.

Notwithstanding the possibility China takes a crack at the Graveyard of Empires.

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Offline Boges

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2021, 12:33:13 pm »
This group would appreciate this.

Offline MH

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2021, 02:22:59 pm »
This group would appreciate this.

Also a fitting nail in the coffin of the non-Tebow NFL thread.

Offline wilber

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2021, 08:12:27 pm »
The ironic thing about the Graveyard of Empires is none of the empires wanted the place. The Brits only went there to keep the Russians out and the Russians only went there to keep the Americans out.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC