Author Topic: "Me Too" Blowback  (Read 1766 times)

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Offline JBG

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2018, 08:45:51 pm »
I think this started as a good movement, but as it progresses I'm getting more and more disappointed in the dragnet that its producing.  Some of the accusations, in my opinion, are barely newsworthy - nothing more than clumsy, drunken attempts at persuading women to sleep with men. 

It started off exposing powerful men who used their positions to force women into doing things they didn't want to do, which needed exposing.  But now its turned into a bit of a gong show.

We're all mammals, we're all trying to get laid.  I don't think destroying a career is the answer or shaming someone because of a bumbling attempt at getting some back in college.

I'm starting to worry a bit about possible blowback for women now.  I'm seeing a lot of angry men all over the internet and the comments are sometimes scary.  Too many are expressing a desire for women to STFU, get back in the kitchen and make them a sammich.

I'm starting to think this could turn out very bad for women in the end.   :-\
I posted on this before,  Sex crimes victims' powerful testimony at Nassar sentencing - Is It That Much Worse Than Other Viole . The "blowback" I see is that women may have more trouble integrating. I don't even like to be alone in the office with a woman for fear that a disagreement may turn into an accusation of untoward conduct.
Trump - Watch what he does, not how he says it.

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Offline JBG

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2018, 08:47:14 pm »
You're simply flailing words around to attempt to appear erudite. Consent either exists, or it doesn't. It is established through communication, which can happen verbally or otherwise, but you ought not to be just doing a Trump and grabbing someone by the **** because you think you're a star, or whatever.
Consent can, unfortunately, be a grey area rather than black or white.
Trump - Watch what he does, not how he says it.

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2018, 08:53:18 pm »
(Generally speaking.  That would be except for the flashing that MH mentions in another thread.  I think that's against the law)

I'm pretty sure his memory would show that it wasn't as bald as she walked in and he closed the door and dropped his pants. And in the reports I saw she agreed to blow him, so... is that seriously all it takes? Because if so I've been going about it the wrong way.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2018, 08:54:45 pm »
You're simply flailing words around to attempt to appear erudite.

Why would he think flailing words would make him appear erudite. We've all seen you try and fail at that for a long time.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2018, 09:16:41 pm »
You're simply flailing words around to attempt to appear erudite. Consent either exists, or it doesn't. It is established through communication, which can happen verbally or otherwise, but you ought not to be just doing a Trump and grabbing someone by the **** because you think you're a star, or whatever.

That's absolute bollocks, and seems to indicate you think it could never be rescinded.  You also believe everyone communicates in exactly the same way.

Why on earth would you bring up Trump?  I think it's an unhealthy obsession.
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Offline Omni

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2018, 09:21:30 pm »
Why would he think flailing words would make him appear erudite. We've all seen you try and fail at that for a long time.

What, no insults? It's your usual go to when refuted.

Offline Omni

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2018, 09:23:35 pm »
That's absolute bollocks, and seems to indicate you think it could never be rescinded.  You also believe everyone communicates in exactly the same way.

Why on earth would you bring up Trump?  I think it's an unhealthy obsession.

We're getting off topic but I am happy to hear you understand how bad Trump is.

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2018, 09:29:01 pm »
We're getting off topic but I am happy to hear you understand how bad Trump is.

I've always thought Trump was a tw@t, and would have voted for Hillary if I had been American.

I am one of those who find the current US political situation entertaining, though.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline Omni

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2018, 09:34:58 pm »
I've always thought Trump was a tw@t, and would have voted for Hillary if I had been American.

I am one of those who find the current US political situation entertaining, though.

It seems whenever I hear the name Donald Trump spoken I can't help but recollect the recording of him talking about how you can "grab women by the **** if you're a star".  He shouldn't be potus, he should be in jail.

Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2018, 09:57:02 pm »
I'm not sure how to feel about this.  While I agree that the whole #MeToo thing is getting out of control, I certainly don't see getting drunk and sitting on someone's bed as any kind implied consent.

When she told him to stop, he stopped.

Given the situation I don't see how one can blame Patrick Brown for "making a move".  I suspect that many people would take this as a signal that they're ready to go farther.  Are we at the point where we require express verbal encouragement? Signed written documents?   I reiterate: holy shitsnacks.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2018, 10:32:28 pm »
Why are we giving those women more attention than we are the actual problem? Donít your find that a bit strange and frankly unsettling?

Before I answer that I need to know which women and what actual problem you're referring to.

If by "those women" you're referring to victims of predators like Harvey Weinstein and Jian Ghomeshi and their ilk, then yes, the focus needs to be on the predators and putting an end to their behavior.

If by "those women" you're referring to the nitwits who came forward to complain that they had a bad date with Aziz Ansari or that Patrick Brown bought them drinks and tried to kiss them when they went to his home after a night out, then I don't think we should be talking about any of it at all. It's pathetic that we're talking about it.

And if "the actual problem" refers to coercive environments like those fostered by Weinstein and Ghomeshi and by creepy bosses around the world, then I am 100% in favor of fighting that.

But if by "the actual problem" you're referring to a guy in his mid-30s trying to hook up with 18-19 year old women at a bar, then I really couldn't care less.  I think it's utterly pathetic.  From your earlier comments on the matter I get the impression that your big objection to Brown's conduct is that he's 15+ years older than the young women ye tried to pick up.  Is that the case?  Is that "the actual problem"? Is that what women need to be protected from?

If that's "the actual problem", what kind of solution should we be looking at?  Raise the drinking age to 25? Raise the age of consent to 30?  Make a law that you can't date anybody who's not within 5 years of your own age?  Issue chastity belts or burqas?

It creates a narrative that makes it easier for people to be dismissive of those who were actually abused.

I completely agree. This is what I'm saying.  These trivial non-accusations against public figures are undermining the stories of people who actually deserve to be heard.

People like Ansariís accuser should be the ones weíre ignoring and dismissing. Instead we continue to talk about them as if they relate to #metoo at all. They donít.

I completely agree.  The Aziz Ansari smear article was written by a nobody website for the express purpose of cashing in on #MeToo and the current furor over celebrity misconduct, even though nobody actually ever explained where the supposed misconduct actually was. The anonymous girl and the article writer both tried to establish a link to #MeToo, in their ham-handed and completely inaccurate manner.   I feel that the accusations against Patrick Brown are equally nonsensical, and yet they're being treated as a major scandal and called "deeply disturbing" by all and sundry, though again nobody can seem to explain what actual misconduct occurred. It's a fake scandal trying to sell papers and/or score political points by riding the coattails of #MeToo, even though there's no real connection.

Occupy Wall Street started off with a point, and fizzled out because it became a soapbox for every angry millennial with a poor-paying job.

Black Lives Matter started off having a clear focus and important message, and has jumped the shark as it becomes a catch-all for every racially-inspired grievance under the sun.

I fear that #MeToo is on its way toward a similar fate, and I think that when people look back on it, they will look at the Aziz Ansari smear-job as the point where it started to go off the rails.

Which is why I am glad that women like Rosie diManno at the Toronto Star, and Ashleigh Banfield, and Margret Atwood, have been speaking out on the problem of lumping this trivial bullshit in with real actual victims.  I am glad that women are speaking out, because if men speak out at this point in time they might find a mob with pitchforks and torches marching to their door.


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guest4

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2018, 10:58:30 pm »
When she told him to stop, he stopped.

Given the situation I don't see how one can blame Patrick Brown for "making a move".  I suspect that many people would take this as a signal that they're ready to go farther.  Are we at the point where we require express verbal encouragement? Signed written documents?   I reiterate: holy shitsnacks.

 -k

With written contracts and a safeword, the BDSM community is on the forefront of sexual negotiations.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/65251-bdsm-contracts-really-exist-im-a-sexual-submissive-and-heres-how-fifty-shades-got-them
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Offline wilber

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2018, 11:05:57 pm »
With written contracts and a safeword, the BDSM community is on the forefront of sexual negotiations.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/65251-bdsm-contracts-really-exist-im-a-sexual-submissive-and-heres-how-fifty-shades-got-them

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Offline waldo

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2018, 11:20:30 pm »
numerous references to Jian Giomeshi's {supposed} actions throughout these #MeToo related threads... as a reminder, Giomeshi was acquitted based on the, as the trial judge stated: "inconsistencies, questionable behaviour and the outright deception of the court by the three witnesses tainted their evidence". ďAt the end of this trial, a reasonable doubt exists because it is impossible to determine, with any acceptable degree of certainty or comfort, what is true and is false.Ē

and this focus on Giomeshi within these related threads is all after-the-fact, after legal processing. Causes the waldo to think just where Giomeshi would stand today if newly accused for the first time... just how would he be treated/viewed by all those highlighting a "worrisome" shifting imbalance in the #MeToo movement. 

Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2018, 11:30:46 pm »
numerous references to Jian Giomeshi's {supposed} actions throughout these #MeToo related threads... as a reminder, Giomeshi was acquitted based on the, as the trial judge stated: "inconsistencies, questionable behaviour and the outright deception of the court by the three witnesses tainted their evidence". ďAt the end of this trial, a reasonable doubt exists because it is impossible to determine, with any acceptable degree of certainty or comfort, what is true and is false.Ē

Ghomeshi was acquitted of sexual assault.  He was never tried or acquitted for his conduct towards his female subordinates at the CBC. 

Indeed, not only was Ghomeshi the subject of employee complaints, but an independent investigator found that CBC management acted as his enablers and fired two senior managers for mishandling complaints about Ghomeshi's behavior.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/cbc-inquiry-concludes-management-mishandled-jian-ghomeshi-1.3035574

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