Author Topic: "Me Too" Blowback  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2018, 02:59:46 pm »
Society is going backwards.  I want to live in a world where I can grab boobies at whim.  Kidding!...
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2018, 03:01:14 pm »

Rare. I think most of those cases you're referring to involved women complaining a man was a danger to them. The problem with that is there's no law against someone perceiving you as dangerous.

Rare?  I don't think so; women are killed by an intimate partner approximately every six days across Canada.  Many of those are after multiple complaints to police.   How is that 'rare' exactly?   

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Until you actually DO something there isn't much police can do. And even after they make an arrest, the courts almost always let people out on bail for anything short of murder.
Certainly, that is the case and part of the problem of not taking women's safety and male violence seriously enough.  Even the thread on domestic violence demonstrates the underlying societal attitude:  "Well of course men are more violent; they are made that way so women are going to die at the hands of men"; is it any wonder that men can target and kill women without significant impediment?

Offline Omni

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2018, 03:04:17 pm »
Society is going backwards.  I want to live in a world where I can grab boobies at whim.  Kidding!...

If you do get serious about that the phone number at the White House is 1-202-456-1111. I would suggest not leaving it until after the mid terms though. :D

Offline SirJohn

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2018, 04:08:10 pm »
Rare?  I don't think so; women are killed by an intimate partner approximately every six days across Canada.  Many of those are after multiple complaints to police.   How is that 'rare' exactly?

How many of those were separated from their partners and reported them to the police for threatening behavior?

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Certainly, that is the case and part of the problem of not taking women's safety and male violence seriously enough.


You yourself pointed out that all she has to do is make an allegation and he's booted out of the house, even if he paid for it, and not allowed to go anywhere near her. What do you want us to do, shoot him?

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Even the thread on domestic violence demonstrates the underlying societal attitude:  "Well of course men are more violent; they are made that way so women are going to die at the hands of men"; is it any wonder that men can target and kill women without significant impediment?

Introducing reality does not imply a lack of concern. Pointing out that women start violence, hit their partners, as often as or moreso than men is merely reality. The fact men are bigger, tougher and able to both handle more damage and dish it out harder is a simple physical fact of life. I think one of the cites I posted at the time suggested that one of the biggest factors in a woman being seriously harmed by her domestic partner was her willingness to physically attack him first. What it said, and this was not some kind of mens forum, was that if a woman doesn't physically attack her partner she's WAY less likely to be harmed.

And no, that does not mean I don't acknowledge there are some scummy, crazy, violent men out there who attack/kill their partners or ex-partners without provocation.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2018, 04:30:11 pm »
How many of those were separated from their partners and reported them to the police for threatening behavior?

I'm sure you read the headlines; five women in Ontario in less than a month.   
 
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You yourself pointed out that all she has to do is make an allegation and he's booted out of the house, even if he paid for it, and not allowed to go anywhere near her. What do you want us to do, shoot him?

Making the point that there are abuses on both sides does not mean that I can't focus on one side or the other at different times.  If women make false allegations, they should face consequences.  AND our legal system should be expected to protect women from men who are truly dangerous.


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Introducing reality does not imply a lack of concern. Pointing out that women start violence, hit their partners, as often as or moreso than men is merely reality. The fact men are bigger, tougher and able to both handle more damage and dish it out harder is a simple physical fact of life. I think one of the cites I posted at the time suggested that one of the biggest factors in a woman being seriously harmed by her domestic partner was her willingness to physically attack him first. What it said, and this was not some kind of mens forum, was that if a woman doesn't physically attack her partner she's WAY less likely to be harmed.

Hmmm .... it's odd how you seem to have no problem with wholesale condemnation of men who (you assume) make women wear a niqab/hijab, but when it comes to the much bigger problem of Canadian men beating/killing the women in their life, you dismiss it with "It doesn't happen that often, men are stronger/bigger/hornier/more violent by nature, so we have to expect it and anyway, if women didn't start it, they wouldn't be hurt."

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And no, that does not mean I don't acknowledge there are some scummy, crazy, violent men out there who attack/kill their partners or ex-partners without provocation.

Well, that's something at least.   I guess.

Offline wilber

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2018, 04:44:46 pm »
There is nothing else.  Mob rule has existed for as long as a mob were possible, given the numbers.  It's wrong, it's awful, it's whatever you want to call it, but it's not going away.  It's probably a good thing in one regard that the smartphone has replaced the pitchfork, but bad in another in that the mob got a lot bigger.

I don't know the particulars in this case other than the headlines, but he didn't have to resign.  He could have announced his version of the facts and said he'd see them in court.

Yes but in the past you had to actually go out on the street and form a mob. Now you can do it anonymously on your phone. One takes a lot more commitment than the other. Cyber bullying is a prime example.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2018, 06:06:59 pm »
I'm sure you read the headlines; five women in Ontario in less than a month.

Yeah, cuz that happens all the time. Three of them were one guy and none had sought police protection.
 
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Making the point that there are abuses on both sides does not mean that I can't focus on one side or the other at different times.  If women make false allegations, they should face consequences.  AND our legal system should be expected to protect women from men who are truly dangerous.

How?

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Hmmm .... it's odd how you seem to have no problem with wholesale condemnation of men who (you assume) make women wear a niqab/hijab, but when it comes to the much bigger problem of Canadian men beating/killing the women in their life, you dismiss it with "It doesn't happen that often, men are stronger/bigger/hornier/more violent by nature, so we have to expect it and anyway, if women didn't start it, they wouldn't be hurt."

A man who requires his woman to wear a niquab self-identifies as an ****. I'm willing to similarly condemn all men who beat their wives too. Just not all men, period.

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2018, 09:14:06 pm »
Itís fascinating that thereís such a strong inclination to feel bad for accused men and not the accusers.

I feel bad for Elizabeth May too...
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline SirJohn

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2018, 11:42:30 am »
I feel bad for Elizabeth May too...

I like how her party is protesting that she's not being judged the same way as a man would - actually suggesting a male leader who insulted and yelled at his underlings would be 'admired'.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2018, 12:05:35 pm »
Itís fascinating that thereís such a strong inclination to feel bad for accused men and not the accusers.

In cases where people have made accusations of actual wrongdoing, I do feel bad for the accusers.

But in cases like Aziz Ansari and now Patrick Brown?  No, I don't feel sorry for the accusers.  What am I supposed to feel bad about?  They had a disappointing date? Boo hoo.  They were bought alcohol?  Boo hoo.  A man tried to initiate a sexual encounter when they were sitting on his bed?  Boo hoo! Holy shitsnacks. If you don't want an intimate encounter with a man, don't go home with him and sit down on his bed! ****! It's not complicated!

No, I absolutely don't feel sorry for these women.  And I do feel sorry for Ansari and Brown who have suffered grave harm from what is essentially nothing more than gossip.  Even if every word from these "accusers" is absolutely true, Brown and Ansari have done nothing wrong.


I absolutely do support real victims, like the women Jian Ghomeshi serially harassed at CBC, and the numerous victims of Harvey Weinstein and men like him.

And that's why these new stories-- Brown or Ansari-- have annoyed me so much. Because unlike the other cases, the "accusations" against Ansari and Brown are just gossip. They have no merit.  They're a sign that the movement is indeed turning into what Catherine Deneuve warned against, which is a puritan pogrom.  This movement is too important to let it shoot itself in the knee by embracing utterly trivial crap that belongs on the gossip page and not the front page news.


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Offline cybercoma

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2018, 04:51:41 pm »
Why are we giving those women more attention than we are the actual problem? Donít your find that a bit strange and frankly unsettling? It creates a narrative that makes it easier for people to be dismissive of those who were actually abused. People like Ansariís accuser should be the ones weíre ignoring and dismissing. Instead we continue to talk about them as if they relate to #metoo at all. They donít.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2018, 07:39:28 pm »
But in cases like Aziz Ansari and now Patrick Brown?  No, I don't feel sorry for the accusers.  What am I supposed to feel bad about?  They had a disappointing date? Boo hoo.  They were bought alcohol?  Boo hoo.  A man tried to initiate a sexual encounter when they were sitting on his bed?  Boo hoo! Holy shitsnacks. If you don't want an intimate encounter with a man, don't go home with him and sit down on his bed! ****! It's not complicated!


I'm not sure how to feel about this.  While I agree that the whole #MeToo thing is getting out of control, I certainly don't see getting drunk and sitting on someone's bed as any kind implied consent. 

Offline bcsapper

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2018, 07:56:45 pm »
I'm not sure how to feel about this.  While I agree that the whole #MeToo thing is getting out of control, I certainly don't see getting drunk and sitting on someone's bed as any kind implied consent.

That's the problem with consent.  If it's implied, its existence or lack thereof is up to the one doing the inferring.  Consent can be said to exist until it is removed, or it can be said to not exist until it is expressly given.  I challenge anyone to say they have never had a sexual encounter where the former was the condition.

It appears that, in this case, the removal of consent was successful in curtailing the activity.  That really should do it.

(Generally speaking.  That would be except for the flashing that MH mentions in another thread.  I think that's against the law)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 09:09:28 pm by bcsapper »
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2018, 08:16:11 pm »
That's the problem with consent.  If it's implied, its existence or lack thereof is up to the one doing the inferring.  Consent can be said to exist until it is removed, or it can be said to not exist until it is expressely given.  I challenge anyone to say they have never had a sexual encounter where the former was the condition.

It appears that, in this case, the removal of consent was successful in curtailing the activity.  That really should do it.

(Generally speaking.  That would be except for the flashing that MH mentions in another thread.  I think that's against the law)


As a general rule, flashing penises is a bad idea, I don't know why men think this is a good thing but I'm guessing it's the same mindset spurring on the dick pic phenomenon these days.

As I said on the other thread, I don't think what Brown did warrants his resignation, but it was his own party's doing (see below).

My guess is that there is more where that came from and they didn't want to risk it four months before an election.

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The Globe has learned from multiple party sources that caucus members held two conference calls just before midnight Wednesday and demanded that Mr. Brown resign. He agreed to the request on the call. At 1:30 am he released a statement.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/patrick-brown-ontario-pc/article37727765/






Offline Omni

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2018, 08:45:14 pm »
That's the problem with consent.  If it's implied, its existence or lack thereof is up to the one doing the inferring.  Consent can be said to exist until it is removed, or it can be said to not exist until it is expressely given.  I challenge anyone to say they have never had a sexual encounter where the former was the condition.

It appears that, in this case, the removal of consent was successful in curtailing the activity.  That really should do it.

(Generally speaking.  That would be except for the flashing that MH mentions in another thread.  I think that's against the law)

You're simply flailing words around to attempt to appear erudite. Consent either exists, or it doesn't. It is established through communication, which can happen verbally or otherwise, but you ought not to be just doing a Trump and grabbing someone by the **** because you think you're a star, or whatever.