Author Topic: "Me Too" Blowback  (Read 6098 times)

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Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #225 on: December 15, 2018, 12:43:05 pm »
Would someone PLEASE make some rude sexual jokes in my presence and comment about my appearance? Please!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/entertainment/eliza-dushku-cbs/index.html

From reading this...

Quote
"The allegations in Ms. Dushku's claims are an example that, while we remain committed to a culture defined by a safe, inclusive and respectful workplace, our work is far from done," CBS said. "The settlement of these claims reflects the projected amount that Ms. Dushku would have received for the balance of her contract as a series regular, and was determined in a mutually agreed upon mediation process at the time."

...I get the impression that she was not given $9.5 million because Michael Weatherly made some rude comments, but rather because she was removed from the show after confronting Weatherly about it.

The whole point of the Weinstein thing was that women were scared to speak out against him because they were afraid they'd lose work.  So here's an actress who confronts the star of the show she's been cast on about offensive behavior, loses work because of it, and your reaction is "lol, what a crybaby"?   That's beneath you. Go do a backflip into an empty pool.




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Offline SirJohn

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #226 on: December 16, 2018, 11:09:39 am »
From reading this...

...I get the impression that she was not given $9.5 million because Michael Weatherly made some rude comments, but rather because she was removed from the show after confronting Weatherly about it.

From the various accounts of this she confronted him and he apologized. She was only signed to 3 episodes, though there was (as is standard) language in the contract that said she could be made permanent if things worked out. They didn't.

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The whole point of the Weinstein thing was that women were scared to speak out against him because they were afraid they'd lose work.  So here's an actress who confronts the star of the show she's been cast on about offensive behavior, loses work because of it, and your reaction is "lol, what a crybaby"?   That's beneath you. Go do a backflip into an empty pool.

I don't see it the same way. I see it as a hyper-sensitive woman going ballistic over a few jokes. Then a timid network, already under fire for a variety of cases, tossing some money at her to go away. In one account, for example, she describes being 'embarrassed and humiliated" when at a wrap party they had a raffle and he asked her to draw the ticket because a beautiful woman should do the draw and she was the most beautiful woman there.

And your comparing this to Weinstein merely shows how far down the rabbit hole we've come. We've gone from a guy who allegedly physically assaulted women, pressured them to sleep with him, and tried to ruin their careers when they refused - to a guy who made a few jokes around her in public, and equating the two.

And this basically demonstrates the reality that's now emerging of men who increasingly want no women around them at work, who won't hire them, won't work with or for them, and don't even want to be in the same room with them lest they turn out to be offended by some off colour remark and immediately rush to HR and the media to cry about how she's been abused by his insensitive jokes and words. There's certainly a mid-point here where the likes of Weinstein get crushed, but where a few remarks simply have someone speak to the two parties and ensure it doesn't happen again. But a lot of women seem uninterested in moderation when condemnation is so much easier.

The new attitude seems to be that when women are present men have to act like automatons at work, not joke around, not even notice women ARE women, be earnestly serious and focused on work the entire time, and make no effort to socialize. That's anathema to me. So yes, I think almost ten million for that is ridiculous.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 11:34:28 am by SirJohn »
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Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #227 on: December 16, 2018, 06:05:12 pm »
From the various accounts of this she confronted him and he apologized.

She confronted him, he apologized, and "things didn't work out".

She was only signed to 3 episodes, though there was (as is standard) language in the contract that said she could be made permanent if things worked out. They didn't.

Eliza Dushku's case appears to be that "things didn't work out" because she confronted Weatherly for acting like a jerk.

I doubt that CBS likes writing $9.5 million dollar cheques, and I doubt Dushku would have gone out of her way to antagonize a prospective employer without cause. This article from CBS News describes it thusly:

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The Times said when Dushku appeared on "Bull" last year, there were "well-developed plans" to make her a full-time cast member, but those plans allegedly ended after she came forward with allegations against the show's star.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eliza-dushku-michael-weatherly-harrassment-accusation-cbs-paid-bull-actress-9-5-million-settlement/

Quote
After being written off the show, Dushku entered mediation with CBS. According to the Times, that's when a lawyer for CBS handed over outtakes from "Bull" in belief it would help their case, but it allegedly backfired. The Times reports "the outtakes were a goldmine" that actually captured some of the harassment. CBS investigators allegedly concluded the failure to recognize the harassment was a "symptom of larger problems" at the network.

They're drawing a straight line between her complaining about Weatherly's conduct and her losing what was planned to be a full time job.  She lost a $9.5 million dollar job because she confronted her employer for being a creep.


I don't see it the same way. I see it as a hyper-sensitive woman going ballistic over a few jokes.

You don't see it the same way because in your experience guys don't come up to you and act like creeps.


Then a timid network, already under fire for a variety of cases, tossing some money at her to go away. In one account, for example, she describes being 'embarrassed and humiliated" when at a wrap party they had a raffle and he asked her to draw the ticket because a beautiful woman should do the draw and she was the most beautiful woman there.

Also **** jokes and talking about spanking her and threesomes.   I'm certainly not going to feel bad about confronting a co-worker if they talk about stuff like that to me, but fortunately my co-workers have more tact than that.

And your comparing this to Weinstein merely shows how far down the rabbit hole we've come. We've gone from a guy who allegedly physically assaulted women, pressured them to sleep with him, and tried to ruin their careers when they refused - to a guy who made a few jokes around her in public, and equating the two.

I mentioned Weinstein because he was able to get away with his conduct for years because people were afraid to speak out against them because it would hurt their careers.

Weatherly's conduct is obviously far less severe than Weinstein's, but her getting fired for complaining about his conduct is the same kind of leverage that Weinstein-- and lots of other creep bosses-- use to keep women quiet.

And this basically demonstrates the reality that's now emerging of men who increasingly want no women around them at work, who won't hire them, won't work with or for them, and don't even want to be in the same room with them lest they turn out to be offended by some off colour remark and immediately rush to HR and the media to cry about how she's been abused by his insensitive jokes and words. There's certainly a mid-point here where the likes of Weinstein get crushed, but where a few remarks simply have someone speak to the two parties and ensure it doesn't happen again. But a lot of women seem uninterested in moderation when condemnation is so much easier.

The CBS lawyers looked at the out-takes from the show, realized that it was a **** disaster for their case, and gave Dushku $9.5 million.   That kind of makes it seem like you're soft-peddling the extent of Weatherly's conduct.

The new attitude seems to be that when women are present men have to act like automatons at work, not joke around, not even notice women ARE women, be earnestly serious and focused on work the entire time, and make no effort to socialize. That's anathema to me. So yes, I think almost ten million for that is ridiculous.

I think there must be a happy medium between acting like an automaton at work vs telling **** jokes and talking about threesomes and spanking somebody who you clearly don't have that kind of rapport with.  I feel like most men who are not unmitigated creeps or autistic can sense that there's a difference.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #228 on: December 20, 2018, 04:05:05 am »
Eliza Dushku's side of the story, in her own words.

The whole thing is worth a read, but I'll quote some particularly notable excerpts:


I feel compelled to chronicle what actually happened after The New York Times published a story about how CBS handled my allegations. I declined to be interviewed for that piece because I wanted to honor the terms of my settlement with the network. I was under the impression that Weatherly and Caron would also not respond per our settlement. Instead, both commented to the Times in what amounted to more deflection, denial, and spin.

...

The tapes show Weatherly routinely exclaimed “yellow card” after distasteful remarks. I learned from crew members that, because there had been previous harassment training on “Bull,” Weatherly’s delight in yelling “yellow card” was his way of mocking the very harassment training that was meant to keep him in line.

...

In no way was it playful, nor was it joking with two willing participants. It was not “Cary Grant ad-libbed lines,” an incredulous Weatherly excuse which, even if true, asks us to believe that Hollywood behaviors from 70 years ago might be acceptable today. What is hardest to share is the way he made me feel for 10 to 12 hours per day for weeks. This was classic workplace harassment that became workplace bullying.

...

There was daily undeniably demeaning conduct that is unacceptable in an absolute sense. Everyone should be allowed to work without harassment. Weatherly sexually harassed and bullied me day-in and day-out and would have gotten away with it had he not been caught on tape, and had the CBS lawyers not inadvertently shared the tapes with my counsel, Barbara Robb. Reflecting on the whole ordeal, it often makes me think with sadness of the majority of victims who do not have the benefit of the fortunate evidence — the tapes that I had.

...

Weatherly never apologized to me. Instead, I was fired shortly after speaking with him.

After weeks of enduring Weatherly’s harassment, I resolved to deal with it directly. I aimed to be my diplomatic best. This was not easy for me, since there were plenty of other things I would like to have said to him. Framing my request as a plea for “help” in setting a different tone on the set, I asked him to “be my ally” and to “help ease the sexualized set comments.” Weatherly responded with, “Eliza, no one respects women more than I do,” citing his many sisters and his professed history of being “too respectful of women.”

After I left his trailer, I went straight back to my own trailer and wrote down everything I could remember about the conversation in a text to my manager, adding, “I hope he actually received it well & doesn’t run back to the studio telling them to fire me lol.” Then, as I came to learn months later in the settlement process, Weatherly texted CBS Television President David Stapf about 40 minutes after our conversation and asked for what amounted to my being written off the show. Specifically, Weatherly complained that I had a “humor deficit.’’


As for Caron, the “Bull” showrunner, he was undaunted to do Weatherly’s bidding. The fact is that Caron wrote me off the show within 48 hours of my complaints about Weatherly.

...

My talent representatives spoke to Caron about my firing months later. Caron defended Weatherly, explaining he had simply exhibited “frat” behavior and added, “What does [Eliza] expect, she was in Maxim.” On the subject of my legal rights, Caron said to my manager, “If Eliza wants to be out of the business by suing CBS, she can be out of the business.”

...

The boys’ club remains in full force at CBS. The bullying continued. In the settlement process, CBS used as defense a photo of me in a bathing suit, pulled from my own Instagram, as if this suggested I deserved or was not offended by the sexual harassment I experienced.

...

The condition CBS required of me was that I not speak about what happened. I really struggled with this and still do. Some online “posters” have called it hush money. Headlines have called it a “secret settlement.’’ How was I to get paid? I have worked in this industry for close to 30 years. I faced a wrongful termination, the prospect of a three-to-five year lawsuit, and million-dollar legal fees for a war with a massive corporation. And where would that war have been fought? According to the fine print in my contract with CBS, I was required to submit to a “confidential” arbitration, where all “proceedings will be closed to the public and confidential, and all records relating thereto will be permanently sealed.” No judge, no jury, and no chance of anyone finding out what really happened (or so they hoped).








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Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #229 on: December 20, 2018, 04:06:14 am »
Needless to say, I'm glad she got the **** money.  Too bad it didn't come out of Weatherly's own pocket.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #230 on: December 20, 2018, 10:09:03 am »
While Argus objected to the comparison to Weinstein earlier, I have to again point out that this...

Quote
My talent representatives spoke to Caron about my firing months later. Caron defended Weatherly, explaining he had simply exhibited “frat” behavior and added, “What does [Eliza] expect, she was in Maxim.” On the subject of my legal rights, Caron said to my manager, “If Eliza wants to be out of the business by suing CBS, she can be out of the business.”

 ...is exactly the leverage that Weinstein used to keep his victims silent.

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Offline Goddess

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #231 on: December 20, 2018, 10:19:55 am »

The new attitude seems to be that when women are present men have to act like automatons at work, not joke around, not even notice women ARE women, be earnestly serious and focused on work the entire time, and make no effort to socialize. That's anathema to me.

It's not anathema to women.  That's pretty much how we've had to be in the workplace since we were first allowed to work.
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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #232 on: December 20, 2018, 12:48:45 pm »
The new attitude seems to be that when women are present men have to act like automatons at work, not joke around, not even notice women ARE women, be earnestly serious and focused on work the entire time, and make no effort to socialize. That's anathema to me.
We have both men and women in our office, and we joke around a lot, without any sexist comments or even sexual innuendo, no jokes that demean women - or men for that matter.  Funny how people can actually do that!  If you cannot, that is your problem.

Offline Omni

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #233 on: December 20, 2018, 01:33:24 pm »
We have both men and women in our office, and we joke around a lot, without any sexist comments or even sexual innuendo, no jokes that demean women - or men for that matter.  Funny how people can actually do that!  If you cannot, that is your problem.

Agreed. I worked in a number of offices that featured men and women, and I managed one for a few years across the waters in Africa that had a combination of Black and White men and women. We had fun and joked around a lot as well. It was helpful as the work got done efficiently, and educational because you learned about other peoples cultures. I don't recall a moment of any racism or sexism any other such anathema. SJ must have worked in a fairly dysfunctional office.

Offline Goddess

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #234 on: December 20, 2018, 01:41:14 pm »
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #235 on: December 20, 2018, 05:58:51 pm »
We have both men and women in our office, and we joke around a lot, without any sexist comments or even sexual innuendo, no jokes that demean women - or men for that matter.  Funny how people can actually do that!  If you cannot, that is your problem.

It's weird for me to hear that you can't have that kind of humour in the workplace.  Why not ?  Do you NEED bawdy humour elsewhere in life ?

Find some weird friends and make jokes with them...

Offline TimG

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #236 on: December 20, 2018, 06:13:48 pm »
The important part of this story is Eliza Dushku appears to have made an honest attempt to resolve the issue privately. It only became a lawsuit when she was then punished for expressing her opinion. CBS management failed big time. Even if the argument that Dushku had a thin skin as merit they had an obligation to at least mediate the disagreement.
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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #237 on: December 21, 2018, 07:42:46 am »
It's weird for me to hear that you can't have that kind of humour in the workplace.  Why not ? 
You find it weird that people in our office have fun without "bawdy humor"?   Is that what you are saying here?

Quote
Do you NEED bawdy humour elsewhere in life ?
Me personally?   Or people generally?   I'd say people generally need humor in their life, type is personal preference. 

Quote
Find some weird friends and make jokes with them...
All my friends are weird.  Was hoping to meet some normal ones and see how that went.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #238 on: December 21, 2018, 07:58:26 am »
You find it weird that people in our office have fun without "bawdy humor"?   Is that what you are saying here?
Me personally?   Or people generally?   I'd say people generally need humor in their life, type is personal preference. 
All my friends are weird.  Was hoping to meet some normal ones and see how that went.

No - the opposite.  I was unclear.  Some people say you can't have fun without it.  It's a weird idea.

I have friends that we have bawdy jokes with, often on stage :) and people and children that I can have great humour with - without dirtyness.

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Re: "Me Too" Blowback
« Reply #239 on: December 21, 2018, 08:39:48 am »
No - the opposite.  I was unclear.  Some people say you can't have fun without it.  It's a weird idea.

I have friends that we have bawdy jokes with, often on stage :) and people and children that I can have great humour with - without dirtyness.
Thanks for clarifying, I was confused.

I think that there are groups within the office who have worked together for years, developed trust and respect between them, who may be a bit more risque from time to time.