Author Topic: Thoughts on Democracy and Discussion  (Read 781 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Thoughts on Democracy and Discussion
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2017, 04:49:29 pm »
Sure, but even expressing reality as you have here is tantamount to advanced calculus in today's political discourse.

And yet these same people insist that there is a 'Canada' with 'Canadian Values'.  Separating out an area in which details can be discussed, and trade-offs can be proposed would be a sea-change and huge leap in actually making 'politics' where before there was grandstanding.

There is a Canada and there are Canadian values. Think of values as a hierarchal model. On the topmost level we have beliefs in theories like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, democracy, a secular culture, basic justice and fairness and how to treat one another (politeness and no punching). I think almost all of us agree with this almost all of the topmost level of values. Then there are more values that come underneath. These are more amorphous and require more rationalizing, and they are open to disagreement about methods.

Value: Help the poor.
Left wing. Give them money!
Right wing. Give them tools to help themselves.

So maybe that isn't so much a difference in values as it is in how to bring about those values.

Value: Law and order
Left wing: Let's not be too stern here. People are imperfect. Forgiveness is a virtue.
Right wing: Crucify them! Otherwise society will degenerate and we'll have riots in the street!

Perhaps that's a different definition of what constitutes law and order.

Diversity is our strength? What kind of a value would we put that under? Some people think it is our strength and some believe it a weakness. Is that a clash of values? Perhaps you could say the Left wants an inclusive society that is tolerant of each others differences. The Right, meanwhile, suspects that if we bring in masses of people who have different top level hierarchal values than us that might water down the general acceptance of those top-level hierarchal values and thus eventually threaten them - and our society.

Yet even this is not, I think so much a clash of values as a clash of beliefs in the danger to our shared values.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 05:48:59 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum