Author Topic: YVR shooting  (Read 494 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2021, 12:22:35 pm »
from the SCOC majority decision, written by then Chief Justice Beverly McLachin: a decision that found that the 3 year minimum penalty for a first offence and 5 years for a subsequent offence, violated the “cruel and unusual” provisions of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

Quote from: {former} Chief Justice Beverly McLachin
Mandatory minimum sentences, by their very nature, have the potential to depart from the principle of proportionality in sentencing. They emphasize denunciation, general deterrence and retribution at the expense of what is a fit sentence for the gravity of the offence, the blameworthiness of the offender, and the harm caused by the crime. They function as a blunt instrument that may deprive courts of the ability to tailor proportionate sentences at the lower end of a sentencing range.

the Chief Justice also wrote... "that trial judges are not prevented from imposing exemplary sentences that emphasize deterrence and denunciation in appropriate circumstances."

Offline kimmy

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2021, 12:59:41 pm »
certainly, gunners (like you) aren't in favour of any additional gun control measures - of course! Why would any responsible gun owner have a concern with a buyback program for all military-style assault rifles legally purchased in Canada... a program intended to offer fair market prices for owners; a program providing more resources for law enforcement to administer the program? Why would any responsible gun owner have a concern with the following?



Why would I be mad? I've been scapegoated for the actions of a bunch of gangsters and punks. I've been inconvenienced. I've got a piece of property that I'm no longer able to use and no financial compensation for it. And, I liked that rifle. I enjoyed it. I am disappointed that I won't have it anymore.  Imagine how you'd feel if someone took away your favorite Justin Trudeau body-pillow, that's about how I feel about having my rifle expropriated.

Fair market prices? I'll believe it when I have the cheque in my hand.  I know how much my particular rifle was retailing for before the ban, so I have an exact dollar figure in mind. I see no reason why I should take a penny less, and I don't see why any gun owners should take a financial loss because of the government's decision. As this drags on there should probably be interest charges.

Also, what buy-back program?  When is that happening?  Is it in the in-box right behind electoral reform, fighting wealth inequality, and a national drug plan?  It's been a year and as far as I can tell they've put this file on Bill Blair's desk and are watching to see if it moves under its own power. How hard can it be to set up a buy-back program? Have they just not found the right Liberal-connected firm to administer the program yet?

GIMME MY GOD DAMNED MONEY JUSTIN YOU FUCKEN DEADBEAT

I'M GETTIN REAL TIRED OF YOU DUCKING ME PUNK

 -k
Masked for your safety.

Offline waldo

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2021, 01:18:22 pm »
Why would I be mad?

GIMME MY GOD DAMNED MONEY JUSTIN YOU FUCKEN DEADBEAT

I'M GETTIN REAL TIRED OF YOU DUCKING ME PUNK

caps lock mad? Really? Since the program isn't compulsory, just keep your gun... given you won't be able to {legally} use it, that should help keep it in pristine condition. Win-win, right?
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Offline wilber

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2021, 09:34:24 am »


the Chief Justice also wrote... "that trial judges are not prevented from imposing exemplary sentences that emphasize deterrence and denunciation in appropriate circumstances."

Except that is bullshit. Trial judges are bound by case law and plea bargains, they tell us that all the time in their decisions. Sentencing laws in Canada are a complete joke, they don't really exist. Whenever I hear someone spouting a maximum penalty for a crime in Canada I feel like puking. Except for first degree murder which has only one penalty, I challenge you to find a case in recent history where a Canadian judge has imposed a maximum penalty for any criminal offence regardless of how heinous an example of that crime.

This is about the legal system maintaining complete control over whether and how laws are enforced in this country.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 09:38:13 am by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2021, 11:55:18 am »
Trial judges are bound by case law and plea bargains, they tell us that all the time in their decisions.

no - this is Canada member wilber... this is Canada; not the U.S..



and... given the non-standardized nature of 'fitness tests' across provinces (as used by judges to gauge the appropriateness of a plea bargain), the SCOC has further ruled that:

Quote
...a jointly recommended sentence now can only be disregarded by a sentencing judge when the jointly recommended sentence is “so unhinged from the circumstances of the offence and the offender that its acceptance would lead reasonable and informed persons, aware of all the relevant circumstances, including the importance of promoting certainty in resolution discussions, to believe that the proper functioning of the justice system had broken down.”

so, member Hang'EmHighwilber, take a do-over and come back against Crown Prosecutors and the plea bargain system itself... sure you can!

Offline wilber

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2021, 12:18:44 pm »
You better tell this judge.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/judge-penthouse-party-covid-sentencing-1.6005931

Quote
"Had Crown been seeking a period of incarceration, you need to know I would have imposed it," Gordon told Movassaghi as he stood before her.


Clearly this judge was putting 100% of the responsibly for this guy not getting prison time on the prosecution. She took no responsibility or initiative herself other than giving the guy a good scolding.

Still waiting for an occasion where a Canadian judge has imposed a maximum penalty under the law regardless of how badly it was broken.

"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2021, 01:01:42 pm »
Quote
...a jointly recommended sentence now can only be disregarded by a sentencing judge when the jointly recommended sentence is “so unhinged from the circumstances of the offence and the offender that its acceptance would lead reasonable and informed persons, aware of all the relevant circumstances, including the importance of promoting certainty in resolution discussions, to believe that the proper functioning of the justice system had broken down.”

Which directly contradicts
Quote
that the court is not bound by any agreement between the accused and the prosecutor

and

Quote
that trial judges are not prevented from imposing exemplary sentences that emphasize deterrence and denunciation in appropriate circumstances.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2021, 01:10:13 pm »
Clearly this judge was putting 100% of the responsibly for this guy not getting prison time on the prosecution. She took no responsibility or initiative herself other than giving the guy a good scolding.

oh my member wilber! Uhhh... was this a criminal offence with related charges brought forward, or... a violation of B.C.'s Public Health Act?

in this regard the violator received 1 day jail sentence (in addition to previous 7 days spent in jail for breaching bail release order), received a $5000 fine and 50 hours of community service.


Offline waldo

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2021, 01:16:20 pm »
Which directly contradicts

no - again, given the non-standardized judicial review 'fitness tests' across provinces, the SCOC ruled to reinforce just how the court is not bound by any agreement between the accused and the prosecutor

Offline wilber

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2021, 04:01:40 pm »
no - again, given the non-standardized judicial review 'fitness tests' across provinces, the SCOC ruled to reinforce just how the court is not bound by any agreement between the accused and the prosecutor

It does directly contradict. It says that if you go against plea deals get used to being overturned on appeal.

Prosecutors only care about getting a conviction, it is up to judges to make sure sentences fit the offence, otherwise they are merely referees overseeing a process.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2021, 06:02:54 pm »


Do you walk around with a hard drive full of Liberal government infographics and other propaganda or something?  Do you write this crud for a living?

You remind me of a Liberal version of Pierre Poilievre.  Always pumping the party lines, always kissing azz, hey!
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline waldo

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2021, 11:11:20 pm »
Do you walk around with a hard drive full of Liberal government infographics and other propaganda or something?  Do you write this crud for a living?

You remind me of a Liberal version of Pierre Poilievre.  Always pumping the party lines, always kissing azz, hey!

the infographic relates directly to the discussion concerning MMP and reflects upon Bill C-22. Clearly it's too difficult for you to actually contribute/participate in the ongoing discussion... choosing instead to whine/blather on about "propaganda... partisanship".

Offline wilber

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2021, 12:05:21 pm »
90% of the current YVR shootings involve South Asians but I guess we need to cut them some slack because they are disadvantaged. We are talking about multiple firearms offences here, not shoplifting or stealing bicycles.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2021, 12:14:21 am »
I guess black, indigenous and otherwise "marginalized" gang bangers are less lethal than the average gang banger.
So getting shot by a black, indigenous or otherwise disadvantaged gang banger is less odious than other gang bangers. Good to know.
90% of the current YVR shootings involve South Asians but I guess we need to cut them some slack because they are disadvantaged.

Mandatory minimum sentences should be recognized as failed sentencing practice

Quote
At their core, MMPs are unconstitutional. Point blank. Courts across the country and all the way up to the Supreme Court of Canada have found that MMPs violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
.
Because the evidence is clear: MMPs are an ineffective and dangerous justice tool. They do not deter crime. They do not increase public safety. They disproportionately affect Indigenous and other racialized Canadians. And they are incredibly expensive.

Offline wilber

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Re: YVR shooting
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2021, 11:29:03 am »
When it comes to multiple firearms offences, public safety is at the bottom of the priority list.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC