Author Topic: Wreck of Saskatchewan  (Read 1324 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2018, 12:28:44 pm »
It does not matter why prices go up because the impact on the consumer is the same. If higher prices are desirable then higher prices because OPEC wants to make more money must be a good thing. It is illogical to argue otherwise.

It's only a bad thing because the revenues are going to industry instead of into government coffers. That's why Horgan wants the feds to provide relief, his government would have no chance of even maintaining the claim of a balanced budget if it lowered any provincial tax on fuel.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2018, 01:14:13 pm »
Quote
And why isn't Andrew Webber out on the streets explaining why high gas prices are a great thing for British Columbia?

Because he has musicals to compose?
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2018, 01:18:50 pm »
You know the fucken guy I meant. Whatever the **** his name is.

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Offline JMT

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2018, 03:36:12 pm »
Not being able to export your products isn't hypothetical.

Sure it is - it hasn't happened.  Actual economic damage would involve a shrinking in the economic base.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2018, 05:07:21 pm »
Sure it is - it hasn't happened.  Actual economic damage would involve a shrinking in the economic base.

So other provinces can arbitrarily decide whether another province can grow its economy or replace existing markets and you are fine with that.

Without Churchill, Manitoba would be at the mercy of other provinces to get its products to a Canadian port.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 05:09:33 pm by wilber »
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2018, 05:29:54 pm »
It does not matter why prices go up because the impact on the consumer is the same. If higher prices are desirable then higher prices because OPEC wants to make more money must be a good thing. It is illogical to argue otherwise.

Wrong times a thousand billion. Carbon taxes go to pay for things we all need, and to invest in alternative energies.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2018, 06:32:40 pm »
Wrong times a thousand billion. Carbon taxes go to pay for things we all need, and to invest in alternative energies.
Irrelevant. The issue is if someone believes that higher fossil prices is good they have no business demanding that governments do something to lower prices. Higher prices are good no matter what the reason if climate change is the real issue. What is really happening is shameless politicking because politicians know that support for "action" on climate change disappears as soon as people are asked to make sacrifices so they focus on wasting money on pointless gestures that don't do enough to have any real effect on consumer behavior. We are seeing that hypocrisy on full display in BC where politicians whine about the carbon emissions from oil pipelines and while asking for federal help on gas prices. A little tip: if people in BC really want lower gas prices they could stop trying to screw over their major supplier of oil.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2018, 06:35:26 pm »
It does not matter why prices go up because the impact on the consumer is the same. If higher prices are desirable then higher prices because OPEC wants to make more money must be a good thing. It is illogical to argue otherwise.

Your post is a little hard to follow but are you trying to say for instance that the carbon tax levied by the province of BC years ago is being handed over to OPEC.?
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Offline Omni

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2018, 06:54:54 pm »
Irrelevant. The issue is if someone believes that higher fossil prices is good they have no business demanding that governments do something to lower prices. Higher prices are good no matter what the reason if climate change is the real issue. What is really happening is shameless politicking because politicians know that support for "action" on climate change disappears as soon as people are asked to make sacrifices so they focus on wasting money on pointless gestures that don't do enough to have any real effect on consumer behavior. We are seeing that hypocrisy on full display in BC where politicians whine about the carbon emissions from oil pipelines and while asking for federal help on gas prices. A little tip: if people in BC really want lower gas prices they could stop trying to screw over their major supplier of oil.

The BC carbon tax hasn't "disappeared" as you seem to suggest all efforts always do, and has been in place for 10 years and has reportedly reduced emissions in the province by ~15%. The tax was revenue neutral for roughly half that time but then governments did fall back on reducing provincial income/corporate taxes. That's where the politics come in but here's a tip for you: People who understand the evidence of, and therefore have concerns about global warming, don't wish for higher prices them to "screw over" anybody.

Offline JMT

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2018, 07:44:37 pm »
Without Churchill, Manitoba would be at the mercy of other provinces to get its products to a Canadian port.


Churchill hasn't been accessible for a year now...
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2018, 07:55:41 pm »
The BC carbon tax hasn't "disappeared" as you seem to suggest all efforts always do, and has been in place for 10 years and has reportedly reduced emissions in the province by ~15%. The tax was revenue neutral for roughly half that time but then governments did fall back on reducing provincial income/corporate taxes. That's where the politics come in but here's a tip for you: People who understand the evidence of, and therefore have concerns about global warming, don't wish for higher prices them to "screw over" anybody.

Nonetheless, the claim that the carbon tax has reduced emissions by 15% seems predicated on the premise that higher costs reduce consumption and encourage people to change their behavior.

If that's the case, why does it matter if the higher cost comes from Rachel Notley or from sanctions being put on Iranian oil, or from some other reason?  Ultimately, the green-people say that higher costs reduce consumption and save the environment.  Higher gasoline costs are good.  Therefore green-people should be happy if Notley causes gas prices to rise.  Andrew Lloyd Weaver should write Notley a thank-you if she reduces gasoline flow to BC, shouldn't he?

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Offline Omni

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #86 on: May 21, 2018, 08:12:55 pm »
Nonetheless, the claim that the carbon tax has reduced emissions by 15% seems predicated on the premise that higher costs reduce consumption and encourage people to change their behavior.

If that's the case, why does it matter if the higher cost comes from Rachel Notley or from sanctions being put on Iranian oil, or from some other reason?  Ultimately, the green-people say that higher costs reduce consumption and save the environment.  Higher gasoline costs are good.  Therefore green-people should be happy if Notley causes gas prices to rise.  Andrew Lloyd Weaver should write Notley a thank-you if she reduces gasoline flow to BC, shouldn't he?

 -k

I certainly don't propose to speak for "green people" but I think to say they are just happy for higher prices for whatever reason is a completely blind assumption. (of the timg variety) I do think that people will pay a bit extra if the proceeds go towards healthy alternatives and not into OPEC's pockets is acceptable. I guess it depends on how well you can ignore climate science.

Offline wilber

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2018, 08:27:42 pm »

Churchill hasn't been accessible for a year now...

So there you go, you would be screwed.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 08:39:39 pm by wilber »
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Offline wilber

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #88 on: May 21, 2018, 08:32:38 pm »
There are a lot of reasons that contribute to lowering emissions. As less efficient system are replaced with newer more efficient ones, emissions will go down. Technology is a big driver and to give carbon taxes all the credit is just crap.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Wreck of Saskatchewan
« Reply #89 on: May 21, 2018, 08:45:23 pm »
Of course new technology will be the driving force as opposed to the ancient technology of drilling a hole in the ground and sucking up another barrel of oil to burn sending the ash up into the atmosphere.