Author Topic: What you need to get a Tim Horton's  (Read 2018 times)

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Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2018, 05:59:31 pm »
As I said before, of course they'd try and save face by denying it.  Obviously the bad PR got to them.
Of course you have no evidence that what they are saying is not completely true. This is just crap your are making up because you want to blame the owners. The fact that the price hikes only affects a few items at a few locations is pretty good evidence that they are telling the truth on this point. Not that it makes a difference to someone with their heart set on a lynching.

Offline JMT

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2018, 06:03:42 pm »
Of course you have no evidence that what they are saying is not completely true.

And by that same logic, the reverse is true. 
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Offline JMT

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2018, 06:05:08 pm »
I mean, we have no way of knowing that $15 per hour isn't a perfect world.

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2018, 06:06:16 pm »
And by that same logic, the reverse is true.
Read my post. I said:

The fact that the price hikes only affects a few items at a few locations is pretty good evidence that they are telling the truth on this point.

IOW - there is evidence the reverse is true.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2018, 06:44:32 pm »
Of course you have no evidence that what they are saying is not completely true. This is just crap your are making up because you want to blame the owners. The fact that the price hikes only affects a few items at a few locations is pretty good evidence that they are telling the truth on this point. Not that it makes a difference to someone with their heart set on a lynching.

Oh sure, it's just a coincidence that after public outrage about cutting employee benefits, they just HAPPEN to raise prices, which HAPPENS to be an alternative to cutting benefits.

I'm sure Timmy's doesn't have a mega team of PR personnel weighing the cost benefits of raising prices by a few pennies or appearing callous for mistreating workers.

Bad PR in this case would be worse than minimum wage increase.  They made the right move the second time around.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2018, 07:20:22 pm »
I mean, we have no way of knowing that $15 per hour isn't a perfect world.

So you believe that it doesn't matter how much you raise prices, people will continue to buy in the same amount? Is that what you're saying? Price does not effect demand?
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Offline JMT

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2018, 07:32:34 pm »
So you believe that it doesn't matter how much you raise prices, people will continue to buy in the same amount? Is that what you're saying? Price does not effect demand?

There's no way to know.  I'm following Tim's logic here.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2018, 07:33:54 pm »
There's no way to know.  I'm following Tim's logic here.

How so? Tims, the organization, does not want to raise prices for fear of losing sales. Its money comes directly off the top of sales at the franchises. Tims doesn't care if the franchisees' profits are cut in half as long as the money THEY get doesn't go down. That's why it won't let them increase prices to make up the added cost of employees.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2018, 07:36:56 pm »
Not Tim Horton's, TimG.  We have no way to know anything.

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2018, 07:37:56 pm »
Oh sure, it's just a coincidence that after public outrage about cutting employee benefits, they just HAPPEN to raise prices, which HAPPENS to be an alternative to cutting benefits.
What don't you understand about "affects only a small number of items at a few stores" you don't you understand? Obviously we can't know for sure but the evidence favors Tim's rather than the lynch mob.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2018, 07:41:08 pm »
Not Tim Horton's, TimG.  We have no way to know anything.

Tim's logic has been straightforward economic theory. Bedrock economic theory, in fact. When you raise the cost of something you decrease demand unless the demand is inelastic. Ie, you don't have any choice but to buy it at whatever price. Every city in Canada is short of police as compared to pretty much all other western countries. Why? I think it's because we've let the costs of police get so high compared to others we simply can't afford as many as we should have. Now if cities will cut back on police why would companies not cut back on waiters and barristas?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 07:43:06 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2018, 07:46:11 pm »
Not Tim Horton's, TimG.  We have no way to know anything.
Which, of course, completely misrepresents my POV. My position has always been that knowledged derived from statistical analysis is going to be suspect unless that knowledge can be confirmed with controlled experiments. This is impossible to do with many things where the scope for controlled experiments is limited to non-existent. People like cybercoma would rather see that any study done by a cybercoma approved academic must be accepted as gospel truth because they are "science" and "science" is never wrong.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 08:41:33 pm by TimG »

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2018, 09:33:30 am »
Then where are we ?

- We know there is divergent economic opinion on such policies, but also that this action is more drastic than others
- We know that it's impossible to separate economic factors as we can with lab experiments.

I think that this *is* the experiment and we can see the result of it in a little while.  Whether or not it's an irresponsibly risky step will come out.  I find it odd that TimG cites economic orthodoxy but then says we can't know the impacts of this change.  It seems like a convenient call to authority.

Impacts on unemployment rates should be a litmus test in the short term, no ?

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2018, 10:45:03 am »
Impacts on unemployment rates should be a litmus test in the short term, no ?
Well, I am sure there will still be arguments on both sides no matter what the data says because there are always confounding factors and researchers have a lot of flexibility in how they deal with confounding factors (read: tweak results to produce desired conclusion).

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2018, 11:38:20 am »
Of course you have no evidence that what they are saying is not completely true. This is just crap your are making up because you want to blame the owners. 

Corporations have a long history of spinning the facts to make themselves look good, much like politicians.   Certainly increase in employee wages across the board will result in higher costs to the company.  But I don't think the solution is keeping people at poverty wages and leaving the taxpayer to pick up (some of) the slack through subsidies provided by the government.   JJ Bean seems to think it can offset the wage increases by raising it's prices 50 cents or less on product; somehow I doubt that 50 cents is going to make a lot of difference to the people who support these stores.  That this particular Tim's franchise chose to cut back on the employees suggests to me that they wanted to do this already, and the wage increase was just an excuse they could use.