Author Topic: What you need to get a Tim Horton's  (Read 1133 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #165 on: January 22, 2018, 05:22:58 am »
Not really because for five of those years there was no increase.

Overall it comes out to .15 per year which is pretty close to inflation.

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #166 on: January 22, 2018, 05:48:20 am »
Overall it comes out to .15 per year which is pretty close to inflation.
WTF? I did the math with the BOC calculator above. Didn't you read it?

Inflation over a 10 year period is ~$1.39 from a base of $8.
The rate PRIOR to the increase already was greater than inflation!
An increase to $15 is 5x what be expected given inflation alone.
Can we please dispense with this nonsense? The increase cannot be justified as 'inflation adjustments'.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-minimum-wage-to-rise-to-10-25-1.902092
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 05:54:38 am by TimG »

Offline MH

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #167 on: January 22, 2018, 06:29:33 am »
I think we had a miscommunication.

I was referring to wilbur's question of raises prior to this year, not the large increase we're discussing currently. He seems to think previous changes didn't keep up with inflation while I submitted that they pretty much did.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #168 on: January 22, 2018, 06:59:31 am »
Tim is still running wth these outright lies about the affect of minimum wage.

Iím sure all of these economists with PhDs from the Canadian Economics Association know what the ďweight of the evidenceĒ is. They all argue for the min wage increase and say itís negative effects are minimal compared to the benefits.

https://www.economics.utoronto.ca/gindart/2017-07-04%20-%20Minimum%20wage%20hike%20won.pdf

It takes 30 seconds of searching to see that the doom and gloom coming from big business cheerleaders like Tim has not come to pass anywhere that has already experienced these increases. More money for the lowest wage employees means more consumer spending which encourages job growth. Thatís been the pattern. Itís literally the opposite of the hysterical fears of the anti-labour propagandists like Tim.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #169 on: January 22, 2018, 07:30:08 am »
Yesterday I noticed the Tim Hortons near me raised prices slightly on some muffins and donuts.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #170 on: January 22, 2018, 08:39:41 am »
Yesterday I noticed the Tim Hortons near me raised prices slightly on some muffins and donuts.
As they've done every 6 months for last 8 years.

Offline wilber

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #171 on: January 22, 2018, 09:22:26 am »
Overall it comes out to .15 per year which is pretty close to inflation.

A raise every five years isnít keeping up with inflation, itís catching up to inflation. Big difference.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #172 on: January 22, 2018, 10:10:02 am »
A raise every five years isnít keeping up with inflation, itís catching up to inflation. Big difference.
They have been getting minimum wage increases faster than inflation for the last 10 years. If there is a gap that is so inflation can catch up to the wage gains.

Offline wilber

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #173 on: January 22, 2018, 10:31:01 am »
Does someone need a primer on compound interest?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #174 on: January 22, 2018, 10:40:18 am »
Does someone need a primer on compound interest?
I used the BOC inflation calculator. Are you saying the BOC can't calculate inflation properly?

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #175 on: January 22, 2018, 10:52:09 am »
Tim is still running wth these outright lies about the affect of minimum wage.
Quoting the opinion of a economic at the University of California is not a lie. I even quoted the part where he explains why the the studies showing no effect are not that credible.

Iím sure all of these economists with PhDs from the Canadian Economics Association know what the ďweight of the evidenceĒ is. They all argue for the min wage increase and say itís negative effects are minimal compared to the benefits.
Then why not raise it $100/hour? Oh right. Because that would be bad. The trouble with these assertions are made based on relatively modest increases in the past - not the absurd increase being pushed though now. Any economist who quickly declares that such an unprecedented increase will have minimal negative effects is basing their claim on ideology - not data.

More money for the lowest wage employees means more consumer spending which encourages job growth.
Assertions which are obviously nonsense. Any economist who makes such a claim must believe in perpetual motion machines because the idea that increasing wages can lead to more job growth in a global economy where goods and services can be imported from lower wage regions is simply absurd.

Offline wilber

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #176 on: January 22, 2018, 10:56:54 am »
I used the BOC inflation calculator. Are you saying the BOC can't calculate inflation properly?

I'm saying you don't seem to understand the difference in total income between someone who receives yearly 1.5% increases and someone who receives no increases for four years and then a 5% increase in the fifth year.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline cybercoma

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #177 on: January 22, 2018, 11:33:00 am »
Quoting the opinion of a economic at the University of California is not a lie.
A economist at a university in California, versus a letter from 40 economists, two of whom were presidents of the economics association here in Canada, who say literally the weight of the evidence is exactly the opposite as you're claiming.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #178 on: January 22, 2018, 11:54:01 am »
More money for the lowest wage employees means more consumer spending which encourages job growth. Thatís been the pattern. Itís literally the opposite of the hysterical fears of the anti-labour propagandists like Tim.

This is not a minimum wage hike so can't be compared to any other minimum wage hikes. This is a wholesale income readjustment done for political reasons. And as I've already said this isn't a case of money being taken from the rich and given to the poor. It's money being taken from the poor, lower middle class, and middle class, and a bit from the rich, to give to the poor. That money coming from ordinary people, for the most part, was already in the economy, being spent on car payments and mortgages and dental work for the kids. It's not new money.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline TimG

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Re: What you need to get a Tim Horton's
« Reply #179 on: January 22, 2018, 11:57:26 am »
I'm saying you don't seem to understand the difference in total income between someone who receives yearly 1.5% increases and someone who receives no increases for four years and then a 5% increase in the fifth year.
I am saying that after 5 years of 1.5% inflation the wage that one would expect to receive based on inflation is 7.7%. That should be the end of the calculation need to do a sanity check on the current raises. Now you seem to think that people should get more than inflation to "compensate" wages lost in the past but you can't calculate any such number unless you set other parameters such as period of time which the catch up should occur. i.e. 5 years from now they should have made the same as if they had gotten 1.5% per for 10 years. I have  not done the math but I doubt it would change much. More importantly, the last increases were way above inflation too so you would need to take that into account too. Cherry picking a 5 year interval without looking at where the base was at the start is not reasonable.