Author Topic: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A  (Read 591 times)

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Offline Omni

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Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« on: August 10, 2018, 11:06:13 am »
The city of Victoria BC has made the decision to get rid of the statue of Sir John A MacDonald from in front of city hall citing his role in residential schools as a major reason.

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 11:10:06 am »
Argus is not amused.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 11:20:17 am »
Argus is not amused.

Neither am I really. BC would now be a US state if it hadn't been for MacDonald. Despite his faults, he is the closest thing Canada has to being a father of this country.
He is also being made the lighting rod for all the abuses that occurred under the residential school program long after he was dead.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 11:31:54 am »
Dumb decision. No country's founders have unblemished records when judged by today's standards, but Canada's founders created an exemplary society that enabled the development of today's standards.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 11:38:22 am »
MacDonald was the architect of the residential school system, even though Langevin did take a hit for it when they scraped his name off the building in Ottawa. According to the radio discussion I heard this am, the plan is to put the statue in storage for now perhaps to be displayed elsewhere at a later date so as not to try to whitewash history, and a plaque be placed in the same area to describe his role as PM and his history of relations with indigenous people. 

Offline wilber

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 11:43:25 am »
MacDonald was the architect of the residential school system, even though Langevin did take a hit for it when they scraped his name off the building in Ottawa. According to the radio discussion I heard this am, the plan is to put the statue in storage for now perhaps to be displayed elsewhere at a later date so as not to try to whitewash history, and a plaque be placed in the same area to describe his role as PM and his history of relations with indigenous people.


This is a plan to whitewash history or they would just put a plaque along with the statue.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 11:45:57 am »
This is a plan to whitewash history

Statues only tell the history of pigeon migrations.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 11:46:07 am »
I can't think of a single thing this does to help natives. The idiot do-gooder progressives at city hall will all pat themselves on the back at how noble and inclusive they're being. The natives will high-five each other at having stuck it to the 'settlers', and that will be that.

Except, of course, for engendering further resentment towards natives on the part of a lot of those 'settlers'. That's basically the only thing which this does which will have a lasting effect. Every time stupid **** like, or that Cornwallis statue in Halifax or those moron natives with their protests on parliament hill during Canada day takes place a few more people think that maybe those far right and white power groups are making more sense than they once thought. Certainly there seems a good deal less sympathy for natives today among ordinary people than there was ten years or so ago. Progressives are still willing to lick native boots, of course, as this vote shows, but most people feel differently.


"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline Omni

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2018, 11:50:17 am »
Statues only tell the history of pigeon migrations.

And that's when the REAL whitewashing has to get done.
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Offline MH

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 11:52:34 am »
What about if we had a dialogue about keeping it in return for doing something truly important for first Nations people?
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2018, 11:53:00 am »
Except, of course, for engendering further resentment towards natives on the part of a lot of those 'settlers'. That's basically the only thing which this does which will have a lasting effect. Every time stupid **** like, or that Cornwallis statue in Halifax or those moron natives with their protests on parliament hill during Canada day takes place a few more people think that maybe those far right and white power groups are making more sense than they once thought. Certainly there seems a good deal less sympathy for natives today among ordinary people than there was ten years or so ago. Progressives are still willing to lick native boots, of course, as this vote shows, but most people feel differently.
While I agree the statue should stay, it's more complicated than your go-to rant about "progressives/the Left" and how you're not an extremist but White Power groups make a lot of sense.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 11:55:28 am by Bubbermiley »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2018, 11:56:57 am »
I can't think of a single thing this does to help natives. The idiot do-gooder progressives at city hall will all pat themselves on the back at how noble and inclusive they're being. The natives will high-five each other at having stuck it to the 'settlers', and that will be that.

Except, of course, for engendering further resentment towards natives on the part of a lot of those 'settlers'. That's basically the only thing which this does which will have a lasting effect. Every time stupid **** like, or that Cornwallis statue in Halifax or those moron natives with their protests on parliament hill during Canada day takes place a few more people think that maybe those far right and white power groups are making more sense than they once thought. Certainly there seems a good deal less sympathy for natives today among ordinary people than there was ten years or so ago. Progressives are still willing to lick native boots, of course, as this vote shows, but most people feel differently.

And there you go again, presuming to speak for "most people".

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2018, 11:58:59 am »
While I agree the statue should stay, it's more complicated than your go-to rant about "progressives/the Left" and how you're not an extremist but White Power groups make a lot of sense.

The only lasting consequence of this is as I said. It will **** a lot of people off, will diminish their sympathy for native and native causes, and play into the hands of the Trumps of the world.

As for my 'go to' rant, do you imagine it was a bunch of conservatives on city council that voted on this? Do you imagine it was conservative activists proposing it?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline Omni

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2018, 11:59:38 am »
What about if we had a dialogue about keeping it in return for doing something truly important for first Nations people?

That I think would be a sensible approach. And as I pointed out they are not planning to ditch the statue totally, but to perhaps to find a better way to display it, with regard to the dark parts of the history.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 12:01:16 pm »
It will **** a lot of people off, will diminish their sympathy for native and native causes

Those people were already pissed off and had no sympathy to begin with.
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