Author Topic: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A  (Read 579 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2018, 09:02:05 pm »
Stuff like this doesn't generally matter a lot in elections. It's basic taxes and stuff. Plus 80% don't vote. And those who do are usually in activist/community associations that are closely courted by mayors and city counselors. I don't know much about Victoria politics, but once you're in office in Ottawa, you're basically in for life, or until you decide to try provincial or federal politics.

I don't know, something like this could actually get more people voting. Our town had one mayor for over 30 years but since him, only a couple have lasted more than one term, it's now a tough place to be an incumbent. Councillors not so much.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2018, 09:35:03 pm »
At least here in BC we have moved a few steps ahead of NS in that we don't still have laws on the books that allow for bounty's to be paid for Native scalps.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2018, 10:02:38 pm »
At least here in BC we have moved a few steps ahead of NS in that we don't still have laws on the books that allow for bounty's to be paid for Native scalps.

You would be talking about the colony of Nova Scotia that existed prior to Confederation. That law is not in force.

Offline Omni

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2018, 10:18:21 pm »
You would be talking about the colony of Nova Scotia that existed prior to Confederation. That law is not in force.

Unilaterally unenforced but still on the books.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2018, 11:29:55 am »
Unilaterally unenforced but still on the books.

No it is not. It was a proclamation before Canada existed, made after the natives surprise attack on British civilians. Who they scalped.

Natives invented scalping btw.

Have the Mi’kmaq ever apologized for the civilians they murdered? Doubt it.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2018, 11:43:53 am »
No it is not. It was a proclamation before Canada existed, made after the natives surprise attack on British civilians. Who they scalped.

Natives invented scalping btw.

Have the Mi’kmaq ever apologized for the civilians they murdered? Doubt it.

Well it is actually, but fortunately nobody seems to be availing themselves of it these days.
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Offline MH

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2018, 06:04:14 am »
Have the Mi’kmaq ever apologized for the civilians they murdered? Doubt it.

I don't think we have apologized for anyone proto-Canadians killed in Indian wars either.  It was peacetime atrocities, and I can only think of residential schools as having an apology associated.  Did we apologize to the US for 1812 ?  To Germany ?
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Offline wilber

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2018, 12:06:27 pm »
The closest thing Canada had to an Indian war was the Northwest Rebellion.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2018, 06:22:54 pm »
I don't think we have apologized for anyone proto-Canadians killed in Indian wars either.  It was peacetime atrocities, and I can only think of residential schools as having an apology associated.  Did we apologize to the US for 1812 ?  To Germany ?

We apologized for hanging those Indian chiefs just because they murdered some people building a road. And didn't the tearing down of the statue of Cornwallis in Halifax come with an apology to the Micmack for fighting back?

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-sorry-but-ive-had-enough-of-saying-sorry?video_autoplay=true
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2018, 07:22:38 am »
We apologized for hanging those Indian chiefs just because they murdered some people building a road. 

What was that ?

General apologies for mistreatment is another thing but ok - I can believe that this other thing happened.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2018, 01:09:55 pm »
Sir John A's statue in Montreal was vandalized last night with the dousing of red paint yet again (4th time in the past year) by the same group, in solidarity with the Victoria removal.  Montreal has no plans on removing the statue:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-montreals-sir-john-a-macdonald-statue-vandalized-with-a-vengeance/
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline MH

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2018, 06:17:21 am »
If those are the stakes then we'll just have to start up the war again. Who do you think will win?

Uh, no one.

Offline MH

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2018, 06:19:56 am »
George Washington owned over 100 slaves when he died.  Where does it stop?  Rename the capital Spike Lee, D.C.?
 

The thing that seems to rile people is not that Native folks and liberals WANT this, but that it's not a substantive measure to help them.  That's what I am reading anyway.

White people also vote and make decisions on identity issues... should we just embrace it and work through it, or should we make a call to actually do something worthwhile to help people ?

I proposed tying two classes of action together a few pages back but it landed with a dull thud.

Offline MH

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2018, 06:21:10 am »
Polling indicates about 75% thought the way this was done is wrong. Municipal elections this fall. Could be interesting.

There was a long public process, though.  If the people don't pay attention until after the process has closed whose fault is that ?


Offline MH

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Re: Victoria says good bye to Sir John A
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2018, 06:24:28 am »
Sir John A's statue in Montreal was vandalized last night with the dousing of red paint yet again (4th time in the past year) by the same group, in solidarity with the Victoria removal.  Montreal has no plans on removing the statue:
 

I have changed my mind on this issue.  The fact is that people are hurt by the celebration of Sir John A.  I don't want to whitewash history but they moved the statue to a museum, they didn't destroy it. 

People are upset with things, there is no point in arguing the rationality about it.  Nobody will be convinced.  IN the end, some people want it and some don't and they did something.

If we are concerned about our identity, let's note that but do something substantive about our identity: namely, our propensity to negotiate and move forward.