Author Topic: Toronto the Corrupt  (Read 1307 times)

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Online Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2023, 09:22:24 am »
Nothing is wrong, but if it is it couldn't be the mayor's fault. It must be the immigrants.
Huge increases in a population will impact infrastructure, housing, healthcare, education, the environment etc.  You live in a fantasy world if you think otherwise.

Online Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2023, 09:23:04 am »
Really, we should FIRST look at the party in power and assign blame appropriately.

Harper-Wynne-Rob Ford: Wynne is the Liberal so SHE is to blame
Trudeau-Ford-Chow: Trudeau is the Liberal so HE is to blame and Chow is NDP, my God she PURPOSELY MADE IT WORSE.
You’re deflecting again.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2023, 09:26:43 am »
You’re deflecting again.

Because I'm left of you, you shouldn't listen to me in the first place....

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2023, 09:44:09 am »
Why is Toronto in a "terrible state" and "crumbling", and how would that be the fault of the mayor?  John Tory seemed to do a decent job.  Toronto is one of the better run cities in the country.

Conservative mayors and a council dominated by suburbanites kept property taxes low despite rising costs and aging infrastructure.

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You and your brethren like Desmond Cole want to defund the police, which i'm sure is going to help the gang shootings in Toronto, which btw is primarily caused by the feds letting in significant numbers of poor migrants from violent countries over the years that don't have a hope in heck of staying out of poverty, which your ilk like Olivia Chow like to do because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and you can give yourself a big pat on the back.


Police make up a quarter of Toronto's budget and you're telling me they can't do anything about crime?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2023, 11:17:41 am »
Really, we should FIRST look at the party in power and assign blame appropriately.

Harper-Wynne-Rob Ford: Wynne is the Liberal so SHE is to blame
Trudeau-Ford-Chow: Trudeau is the Liberal so HE is to blame and Chow is NDP, my God she PURPOSELY MADE IT WORSE.

No we should figure out why a problem is occurring and assign blame appropriately.  Most immigrants are law abiding.  Kathleen Wynne had nothing to do with gang violence.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2023, 11:26:06 am »
No we should figure out why a problem is occurring and assign blame appropriately.  Most immigrants are law abiding.  Kathleen Wynne had nothing to do with gang violence.

Where's your evidence that gun violence is primarily an immigrant problem? Where's your evidence that continuing to fund police (at the expense of social services, housing etc) is going to solve the problems?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2023, 11:53:16 pm »
Where's your evidence that gun violence is primarily an immigrant problem?

I didn't say it was an "immigrant" problem, I said it is specific immigrants, ones who are admitted but are poor and poorly educated and don't have much of a hope to ever not be poor, often compounded by factors like coming from countries with violent cultures or single parent homes etc.  So the young men in these families grow up and get involved in gangs, guns, and theft.   It's not about race or immigrants in general, the male children of immigrant doctors aren't getting involved in gangs.

In any big city where gangs are a problem it almost always happens around the poorest parts of the city with high migrant populations.  In Toronto its places like Jane and Finch, and Rexdale etc.  Tell me I'm wrong.  They don't track crimes by race in Canada as far as I know, but if you want some evidence...

https://www.tps.ca/organizational-chart/specialized-operations-command/detective-operations/investigative-services/homicide/most-wanted/

How do you solve this?  Well school programs can help and are already being done but will only go so far.  You can't go back in time and educate people who grew up in another impoverished country that is filled with violence.  If it were me I'd narrow down the specific risk factors as much as possible and not allow people with these risk factors to permanently settle in Canada.  Many of them are refugees so you would have to resettle them in countries more in line with their socioeconomic status, like neighbouring countries from the region they're from.  And i'm not really enthused about handing them tons of free cash to keep them out of poverty when we have our own problems like indigenous poverty that should be funded before that.  In general I think that if someone doesn't have the ability to adequately support themselves and their family in Canada they should not be allowed to permanently settle IMO, it doesn't benefit us at all, and there's typically many other countries they can settle.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2023, 10:02:38 am »
I didn't say it was an "immigrant" problem, I said it is specific immigrants, ones who are admitted but are poor and poorly educated and don't have much of a hope to ever not be poor, often compounded by factors like coming from countries with violent cultures or single parent homes etc.  So the young men in these families grow up and get involved in gangs, guns, and theft.   It's not about race or immigrants in general, the male children of immigrant doctors aren't getting involved in gangs.

Again, where's your evidence for any of this?

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In any big city where gangs are a problem it almost always happens around the poorest parts of the city with high migrant populations.  In Toronto its places like Jane and Finch, and Rexdale etc.  Tell me I'm wrong.  They don't track crimes by race in Canada as far as I know, but if you want some evidence...

https://www.tps.ca/organizational-chart/specialized-operations-command/detective-operations/investigative-services/homicide/most-wanted/

So your evidence that it's primarily a problem with immigrants is that a bunch of the most wanted are brown/Black even though you've no idea where they're from?

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How do you solve this? Well school programs can help and are already being done but will only go so far.  You can't go back in time and educate people who grew up in another impoverished country that is filled with violence.  If it were me I'd narrow down the specific risk factors as much as possible and not allow people with these risk factors to permanently settle in Canada.  Many of them are refugees so you would have to resettle them in countries more in line with their socioeconomic status, like neighbouring countries from the region they're from.

The idea that people who grow up in a violent country shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to escape doesn't really sit right.

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And i'm not really enthused about handing them tons of free cash to keep them out of poverty when we have our own problems like indigenous poverty that should be funded before that.  In general I think that if someone doesn't have the ability to adequately support themselves and their family in Canada they should not be allowed to permanently settle IMO, it doesn't benefit us at all, and there's typically many other countries they can settle.

They should give everyone money, immigrant, Indigenous, working class, everyone.

As for solutions, remember when Toronto had a wave of gun violence in the early 200's and the response was to give the cops a ton of money to harass any Black man they could? $50 million or so that could have been spent on education, access to housing, community services etc.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2023, 02:38:30 pm »
So your evidence that it's primarily a problem with immigrants is that a bunch of the most wanted are brown/Black even though you've no idea where they're from?

I can figure out where many of them are from based on their names.  My primary evidence is that city shootings typically involve racialized young men and occur in the poorest neighbourhoods where poor migrant families live, and poor migrant families are typically ones who were not admitted on an economic basis but a humanitarian basis.  Do you deny this is the case?  Are the daughters of rich Jewish doctors committing gang violence in our cities?

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The idea that people who grow up in a violent country shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to escape doesn't really sit right.

I never said that, I said we can assist in settling them in any other country, including ones that are more in line with their socioeconomic status.  Allowing neighbourhoods full of poor people to settle in our cities and turn them into Mogadishu or an episode of Narcos also doesn't really sit right.  Asylum seekers should be made safe from the dangers they're running from obviously, but not at the expense of our own safety.

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They should give everyone money, immigrant, Indigenous, working class, everyone.

Yeah that won't cause more inflation LOL.  Spoken like a true NDP'er.

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As for solutions, remember when Toronto had a wave of gun violence in the early 200's and the response was to give the cops a ton of money to harass any Black man they could? $50 million or so that could have been spent on education, access to housing, community services etc.

I have said nothing about more police funding or putting back bad policies like street checks.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2023, 04:01:54 pm »
I can figure out where many of them are from based on their names. My primary evidence is that city shootings typically involve racialized young men and occur in the poorest neighbourhoods where poor migrant families live, and poor migrant families are typically ones who were not admitted on an economic basis but a humanitarian basis.  Do you deny this is the case?  Are the daughters of rich Jewish doctors committing gang violence in our cities?

Someone can have a "exotic" name and still be a second, third or fourth-generation Canadian.

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I never said that, I said we can assist in settling them in any other country, including ones that are more in line with their socioeconomic status.  Allowing neighbourhoods full of poor people to settle in our cities and turn them into Mogadishu or an episode of Narcos also doesn't really sit right.  Asylum seekers should be made safe from the dangers they're running from obviously, but not at the expense of our own safety.

How can we make other countries accept them if we won't?

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Yeah that won't cause more inflation LOL.  Spoken like a true NDP'er.

Oh well, better do nothing then.

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I have said nothing about more police funding or putting back bad policies like street checks.

No, but you certainly holler about any efforts to defund police and spend that money eslewhere.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2023, 07:48:32 pm »
Someone can have a "exotic" name and still be a second, third or fourth-generation Canadian.

They might well be, but it is irrelevant what generation they are, it all stems from the same issues. Most are poor and violent and it doesn't have anything to do with inflated cop budgets or not giving them enough free money or free housing.  Migrants, or their children, or their grandchildren, who not capable of being adequately productive and law-abiding members of our society should not be allowed to permanently settle.

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How can we make other countries accept them if we won't?

We can provide incentives if we need to like anything else.  Carrots and sticks.

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Oh well, better do nothing then.

We do a lot for them.  They get free healthcare and highly subsidized education the moment they step foot in the country.  They have access to all sorts of benefits.  Why is it up to us to prevent them from joining gangs, buying guns, committing theft and trafficking drugs, and shooting people dead?  I've literally witnessed murders and attempted murders on multiple occasions over the last 5 years in the cities i've lived in, twice very close to where I was living.  I never saw this crap growing up.

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No, but you certainly holler about any efforts to defund police and spend that money elsewhere.

Well it all depends on the department, I don't know much about police budgets in different cities.  But I do know that in my city that they are lacking in police officers so much that the cops can only be reactive and cannot actively police communities, and they cannot afford body cams which would be nice.

BLM folks always want to complain about cops, which is fine because they act like sh!tbags, but they never tell the people committing crimes to stop committing crimes.  They're always made out to be victims.  It is not the city of Toronto's fault that some young men join gangs, buy illegal automatic weapons, traffic narcotics, and re-enact Biggie vs 2pac every weekend.  They're making those choices.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2023, 11:00:40 am »
They might well be, but it is irrelevant what generation they are, it all stems from the same issues. Most are poor and violent and it doesn't have anything to do with inflated cop budgets or not giving them enough free money or free housing. Migrants, or their children, or their grandchildren, who not capable of being adequately productive and law-abiding members of our society should not be allowed to permanently settle.

Poverty, lack of education etc absolutely is a problem of scarcity. Are you seriously arguing that some people are simply inherently violent?

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We can provide incentives if we need to like anything else.  Carrots and sticks.

That's might vague but ok.

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We do a lot for them.  They get free healthcare and highly subsidized education the moment they step foot in the country.  They have access to all sorts of benefits. Why is it up to us to prevent them from joining gangs, buying guns, committing theft and trafficking drugs, and shooting people dead?  I've literally witnessed murders and attempted murders on multiple occasions over the last 5 years in the cities i've lived in, twice very close to where I was living.  I never saw this crap growing up.

I think the societal obligation to solve societal problems is self-evident.

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Well it all depends on the department, I don't know much about police budgets in different cities.  But I do know that in my city that they are lacking in police officers so much that the cops can only be reactive and cannot actively police communities, and they cannot afford body cams which would be nice.

BLM folks always want to complain about cops, which is fine because they act like sh!tbags, but they never tell the people committing crimes to stop committing crimes. They're always made out to be victims.  It is not the city of Toronto's fault that some young men join gangs, buy illegal automatic weapons, traffic narcotics, and re-enact Biggie vs 2pac every weekend.  They're making those choices.

The whole point of defund is to address the root causes of crime, so this interpretation of yours is way off.

Online Spike The Hike Shady

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2023, 06:06:53 pm »
Apparently the only way for society to address problems is by defunding the police.  Which of course is complete and utter nonsense.  If you want to know what Toronto would look like under this lunacy, just take a look at dystopian hellscapes like San Francisco and Seattle.  Yeah, no thanks.  If you like those situations so much, get the f**k out of Canada and move there.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2023, 08:18:30 pm »
Poverty, lack of education etc absolutely is a problem of scarcity. Are you seriously arguing that some people are simply inherently violent?

Are you saying some people are forced to buy illegal guns and deal drugs and don't have control over their own actions?  If that's the case we definitely should not allow these people into the country.

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I think the societal obligation to solve societal problems is self-evident.

I think the individual obligation to solve individual problems is self-evident.  Society does not force someone to buy an illegal gun and deal narcotics and murder someone.  Did you ever watch Breaking Bad?  Cancer and US health insurance sucks, but neither of those forced Walter White to make all those terrible decisions.

Is it Canada's obligation to fill parts of their own cities with trashy people from other countries which decreases the safety of our cities, neighbourhoods, and schools and then turn them into dependents of the state because they are incapable of properly looking after themselves?  Why would any society be that stupid?

If you're so compassionate I think you should move back to Toronto and put your children in a school where drugs, knives, guns, and gangs, and fights happen a lot, both within schools and between nearby schools.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

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Re: Toronto the Corrupt
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2023, 08:21:26 pm »
For the most part, the gang members where I come from are either white trash or indigenous to the land. But I guess the weak-minded always need to scapegoat.