Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 10106 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #960 on: April 29, 2018, 06:06:24 pm »
I had been preparing to cut and paste key excerpts from the NEP to explain why you were peddling fiction, but then I noticed that you'd already conceded that you were peddling fiction, so why go to all the extra effort.

blah blah blah.

You've conceded that your notions regarding all the great things that Petro-Canada could have accomplished is based on speculation-- fiction, as I have said all along.

conceded? Hardly! What exactly did you think would get... could get... accomplished in ~15 months?  ;D Clearly, ya gots nuthin!

It's always the same with you peddlers of fake outrage and doom&gloom over the NEP. You conveniently ignore other coincident world conditions (like the significant global depression and the big time oil price decline/collapse) and somehow want to blame a program that didn't even really get any traction. Notwithstanding, as I previously highlighted, it was the Alberta Premier of the day that ultimately embraced the NEP... that you malcontent fake western alienators want to blame anything/everything on. Talk about (your) revisionism!

you've labeled your nattering "wishful thinking" charge at least a half-dozen times now. You can try to cloak your own negative wishful thinking with that bizarre reference you're making. Clearly you're quite content with the status-quo; quite comfortable with the fact the 5+ decade absence of a national Canadian energy/resource strategy is a huge contributor to the/your real-world status-quo that has you accepting to self-serving U.S./BigOil control & determination, pricing discounts and the scraps of mice-nut royalties.

your wishful thinking has you against anything that could work towards: a security of supply and ultimate independence for Canada from the world oil market; an opportunity for all Canadians to participate in the energy industry; to share in the benefits of energy industry expansion; to realize a fairness in pricing and revenue-sharing - one that recognized the needs and rights of all Canadians. Your wishful thinking has you against NEP design intentions that aligned with such goals. Your wishful thinking has you against Canadian ownership, control, self-determination, self-sufficiency, etc. Why so anti-Canadian, hey Ms. kimmy?

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #961 on: April 29, 2018, 07:29:32 pm »
Lougheed embraced nothing. He took the Federal government to court, threatened to cut back oil production by 15% and stopped heavy oil expansion. Trudeau eventually backed down on the Petroleum Gas Revenue Tax, which was later declared unconstitutional by the SC anyway.

Nice that the NEP is gone, waldo can make up all sorts of things it would have done that were never part of it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 07:31:04 pm by wilber »
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Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #962 on: April 30, 2018, 02:41:23 am »
Nice that the NEP is gone, waldo can make up all sorts of things it would have done that were never part of it.

you and Ms. kimmy have quite the strawman act going - big time! I've been quite specific in speaking to and emphasizing a national energy/resource strategy... which the short-lived NEP was an attempt at. I've also been quite specific in speaking to and emphasizing opportunities a national strategy could realize - particularly balanced against the current shitShow status-quo. In your zeal to 'demonize' the NEP you've been most selective/self-serving in order to rationalize your inordinate fake outrage and 'alienation'... your emphasis on bankruptcies was classic in that vein, where you completely ignored the timely/coincident 82 global depression & the timely/coincident oil price decline & collapse. And, as you also now highlight and reinforce, the retaliatory actions taken by Alberta/Lougheed and industry itself. And Lougheed didn't just, as you say, threaten - he actually started production cutbacks by directing industry to do so... while industry in turn responded by starting to sell off assets. All of this going on during that ~15 months the original NEP was in place. Apparently, you don't want to give any credit to Lougheed for contributing to your bankruptcy talking point - go figure! 

keep whining about a long past NEP, about a most short-lived NEP... just make sure to formally embrace reality and the status-quo that has you most content and satisfied with U.S./BigOil control & determination, an absence of Canadian ownership/self-sufficiency, a loss of Canadian sovereignty, oil pricing discounts, the scraps of mice-nut royalties in the face of BigOil's mega profit stream, etc., etc., etc..

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #963 on: April 30, 2018, 10:43:11 am »
Quote
"The main elements of the program included:

(a) a blended or 'made-in-Canada' price of oil, an average of the costs of imported and domestic oil, which will rise gradually and predictably but will remain well below world prices and will never be more than 85 per cent of the lower of the price of imported oil or of oil in the US, and which will be financed by a Petroleum Compensation Charge levied on refiners...;

(b) natural gas prices which will increase less quickly than oil prices, but which will include a new and rising federal tax on all natural gas and gas liquids;

(c) a petroleum and gas revenue tax of 8 per cent applied to net operating revenues before royalty and other expense deductions on all production of oil and natural gas in Canada...;

(d) the phasing out of the depletion allowances for oil and gas exploration and development, which will be replaced with a new system of direct incentive payments, structured to encourage investment by Canadian companies, with added incentives for exploration on Canada Lands (lands which the federal government held the mineral rights as opposed to private lands and lands which provinces held the mineral rights);

(e) a federal share of petroleum production income at the wellhead which will rise from about 10 per cent in recent years to 24 per cent over the 1980-83 period, with the share of the producing provinces falling from 45 to 43 per cent and that of the industry falling from 45 to 33 per cent over the same period;

(f) added incentives for energy conservation and energy conversion away from oil, particularly applicable to Eastern Canada, including the extension of the natural gas pipe-line system to Quebec City and the maritimes, with the additional transport charges being passed back to the producer; and

(g) a Canadian ownership levy to assist in financing the acquisition of the Canadian operations of one or more multinational oil companies, with the objective of achieving at least 50 per cent Canadian ownership of oil and gas production by 1990, Canadian control of a significant number of the major oil and gas corporations, and an early increase in the share of the oil and gas sector owned by the Government of Canada."[14]:6


It amounted to a plan for the Federal  government to take over at least 50% of the industry and having Alberta and the industry pay for it, as well as subsidizing eastern consumers of imported oil.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 11:14:59 am by wilber »
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Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #964 on: May 06, 2018, 10:29:26 am »
keep whining about a long past NEP, about a most short-lived NEP... just make sure to formally embrace reality and the status-quo that has you most content and satisfied with U.S./BigOil control & determination, an absence of Canadian ownership/self-sufficiency, a loss of Canadian sovereignty, oil pricing discounts, the scraps of mice-nut royalties in the face of BigOil's mega profit stream, etc., etc., etc..



how's that workin' out for ya, hey!  ;D

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #965 on: May 06, 2018, 12:28:43 pm »
GVRD taxes add about 15 cents a litre. Paid $1.40 in Mission yesterday.

Taxes account for more than 50 cents a litre in Vancouver and the feds charge GST on that 50 cents.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #966 on: May 06, 2018, 03:22:33 pm »
Gas price in London England are about $2.15 Canadian. Interestingly diesel is slightly more expensive at about $2.20. Why is diesel cheaper than gas in Canada?

Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #967 on: May 06, 2018, 03:30:37 pm »
Diesel requires less refinement, but it also creates more pollutants.

Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #968 on: May 07, 2018, 03:27:58 am »
GVRD taxes add about 15 cents a litre. Paid $1.40 in Mission yesterday.

Taxes account for more than 50 cents a litre in Vancouver and the feds charge GST on that 50 cents.

now aren't you the lil' apologist for BigOil pressuring the... perpetual... artificially high(er) wholesale gas price level in Canada.

on a broad average retail level, Canadians pay ~ 35 cents a liter more in tax than representative like U.S. locales. GasBuddy says the price of gas in Sumas Washington (closet to your Mission reference) was ~ 0.89 cents a liter yesterday. As of Nov, 2017: Washington's state tax on gas is 49.4 U.S. cents per gallon... which gets added to the U.S. federal gas tax of 18.4 U.S. cents per gallon.

as for the current Metro Vancouver gas price: TransLink Tax (17 cents), Dedicated Motor Fuel Tax (6.75 cents), Provincial Motor Fuel Tax (1.75 cents), Carbon Tax (7.78 cents), Federal Excise Tax (10 cents) & the Goods and Services Tax (5 cents) => ~ 48 cents tax total ... (GasBuddy says the price of gas in Point Roberts was ~ 0.99 cents a liter yesterday)

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #969 on: May 07, 2018, 11:45:53 am »
now aren't you the lil' apologist for BigOil pressuring the... perpetual... artificially high(er) wholesale gas price level in Canada.

on a broad average retail level, Canadians pay ~ 35 cents a liter more in tax than representative like U.S. locales. GasBuddy says the price of gas in Sumas Washington (closet to your Mission reference) was ~ 0.89 cents a liter yesterday. As of Nov, 2017: Washington's state tax on gas is 49.4 U.S. cents per gallon... which gets added to the U.S. federal gas tax of 18.4 U.S. cents per gallon.

as for the current Metro Vancouver gas price: TransLink Tax (17 cents), Dedicated Motor Fuel Tax (6.75 cents), Provincial Motor Fuel Tax (1.75 cents), Carbon Tax (7.78 cents), Federal Excise Tax (10 cents) & the Goods and Services Tax (5 cents) => ~ 48 cents tax total ... (GasBuddy says the price of gas in Point Roberts was ~ 0.99 cents a liter yesterday)

GST on a $1.50 litre would be 7.5 cents.

What are you the apologist for? If the business case for more refineries is so good then what is stopping a government from doing it now? That ain't going to happen because they know it isn't. Not only that but hell will freeze over before the current BC government would allow a new refinery on BC soil or a pipeline to supply it.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:50:36 am by wilber »
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #970 on: May 28, 2018, 10:44:45 pm »
It sounds like some kind of agreement with Kinder-Morgan has been reached. 

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #971 on: May 29, 2018, 09:08:27 am »
Hey, fellow Canadians, we're now proud owners of a pipeline project, purchased at $4.5 billion from Kinder-Morgan.

It will be run as a crown corporation, presumably with the goal of selling or privatizing it to recoup taxpayer investment once the project is built.   But maybe they should keep it as a crown corporation, and use the money it makes to fund environmental initiatives and renewable energy r&d.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #972 on: May 29, 2018, 09:38:26 am »
I would prefer us to be owners of the west-east pipeline, and support our own market instead of the route to China.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #973 on: May 29, 2018, 10:13:07 am »
I would prefer us to be owners of the west-east pipeline, and support our own market instead of the route to China.

Quebec said no, so that's that.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #974 on: May 29, 2018, 10:19:02 am »
GST on a $1.50 litre would be 7.5 cents.

What are you the apologist for? If the business case for more refineries is so good then what is stopping a government from doing it now? That ain't going to happen because they know it isn't. Not only that but hell will freeze over before the current BC government would allow a new refinery on BC soil or a pipeline to supply it.

There is no business case for a new refinery. Refineries already are operating at partial capacity throughout most of North America. That's why the refineries on the gulf coast want our oil. It would cost at least $20 billion to build refineries, and despite what some would suggest, most of the money comes from extraction. Here is a very good primer on why we don't build more refineries.

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/ottawa-citizen/20180512/281895888884205
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum