Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9955 times)

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Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #720 on: April 18, 2018, 09:15:01 pm »
If you want to qualify per capita, then the idea that Alberta pays anything is moot. Per capita, the federal tax rate is still the same for everyone, regardless of who is paying. So no...Alberta’s taxpayers don’t pay more. They pay the exact same rate,
Nonsense. Every taxpayer pays the same rate but taxpayers in Alberta tend to be richer so they pay proportionately more taxes because of the progressive tax rates. That means Alberta disproportionately funds the federal government. To add insult to injury, the equalization system rewards provinces that kill their economy with excessive taxation and regulation while punishing provinces like Alberta that choose to keep provincial tax rates low.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #721 on: April 18, 2018, 09:17:40 pm »
Sure....   and BC can charge a toll for pipelines running through it and a levy on goods coming through its ports.   Simple.

I'm actually not against equalization but cybercoma is making a good case for getting rid of it.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 09:26:37 pm by wilber »
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #722 on: April 18, 2018, 09:19:28 pm »
Sure....   and BC can charge a toll for pipelines running through it and a levy on goods coming through its ports.   Simple.

And then Alberta charges a toll for every truck or train which carries goods to or from BC. And then all the other provinces do the same.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #723 on: April 18, 2018, 09:36:17 pm »
A larger percentage of each Albertan's tax dollar goes to equalization than any other province.

Wrong. There are far more people in Ontario that contribute more to equalization than in Alberta, it is just that there are fewer in Alberta that don't.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #724 on: April 18, 2018, 09:42:05 pm »
Wrong. There are far more people in Ontario that contribute more to equalization than in Alberta, it is just that there are fewer in Alberta that don't.

The point is, Alberta gets less back in transfers compared to other provinces, relative to the amount it sends to Ottawa. Do you not understand what equalization means?
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #725 on: April 18, 2018, 09:56:39 pm »
Do you not understand what equalization means?

Probably far better than the whiners. If Alberta wants out of confederation then they can have what they contributed, which is a big fat zero. Manitoba is the only western province to join confederation (BC is not western, they are left coast).
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #726 on: April 18, 2018, 09:57:26 pm »
Probably far better than the whiners. If Alberta wants out of confederation then they can have what they contributed, which is a big fat zero. Manitoba is the only western province to join confederation (BC is not western, they are left coast).

So you don't.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #727 on: April 18, 2018, 11:28:33 pm »
Probably far better than the whiners. If Alberta wants out of confederation then they can have what they contributed, which is a big fat zero. Manitoba is the only western province to join confederation (BC is not western, they are left coast).

Is that based on the idea that Alberta was created by an act of parliament rather than being a pre-existing colony that opted in? Because if so, that's an extremely shitty argument.

Just a reminder that for a long time Alberta was the poorest province in confederation.  Alberta used to receive grants-in-lieu of resource royalties.   When the great depression hit, the feds decided "ok, you can be a full province now" and ended the grants-in-lieu scheme and gave Alberta (and Saskatchewan) the same resource royalty rights as other provinces had.   At the time, of course, neither Alberta nor Saskatchewan had any resource revenues to speak of, and the royalties amounted to practically nothing. Alberta went bankrupt the same year.  At the time, maybe the feds thought this was a clever money-saving maneuver, but whatever their rationale, an act of parliament established that Alberta and Saskatchewan had the same right to their resource revenues that other provinces had.   If you have some notion that Alberta is a lesser province than BC because it was created by parliament rather than a colony that opted in, you should dispense with that.  Parliament deliberately made Alberta and Saskatchewan an equal of other provinces. End of story. You can take that narrative and blow it out your ass.

Giving provinces the right to the own resources probably seemed like a fantastic idea when Canada's petroleum industry was centered in Sarnia.  After 1947 it might have seemed like a less fantastic idea, but the only constitutional response to that is "No take-backsies". 

Alberta has contributed far more to confederation than any province except for Ontario.  Alberta's resource industry has been **** FANTASTIC for all of confederation.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #728 on: April 18, 2018, 11:29:42 pm »
Sure....   and BC can charge a toll for pipelines running through it and a levy on goods coming through its ports.   Simple.

wrong.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #729 on: April 18, 2018, 11:35:42 pm »
Empty threats....    you think it’s more profitable to sell a pipeline full of unrefined oil, or a pipeline full of refined gas?   The math is simple.

The Saudis are spending 44 billion dollars to build oil refineries... in INDIA.

Do you think that if refining the oil before exporting it was such an economic no-brainer, that the Saudis would be spending $44 billion to do the exact opposite?

Horgan and Weaver have been talking about what a great idea building refineries instead of pipelines is.  When Horgan himself was BC's opposition energy critic, he was saying the exact opposite in response to proposals to expand BC refinery capacity, because he knew that the economic case wasn't supported.

If refining the diluted bitumen before putting it in tankers was such an economic win, why doesn't Horgan take that project on for BC?  If he thinks making dil-bit into refined products to export is a huge win, he could bring BC onboard to do that here, so that the dil-bit doesn't ever reach the port. He could save the environment, create BC jobs, and support national unity all at once! He'd be a big hero. 

But he won't, because he knows that in reality, all his talk about the economic benefits of doing the refining in Canada aren't supported by a real-world economic case.


 -k
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 11:42:12 pm by kimmy »
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #730 on: April 18, 2018, 11:49:02 pm »
I disagree, they give a lot of aggravation to the ROC.

No, this is about the adopted child who was given everything and continually whines and makes threats. Time for Alberta to grow up.

Hey, Jean Cretien called from 1997 and he wants his talking-points back.

Horgan is the one who is trying to subvert federal authority using the courts and threat of shenanigans. Horgan is the one attempting to scuttle a duly- approved project by harassing the proponent. Horgan is the one who needs to grow up.

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Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #731 on: April 19, 2018, 01:03:51 am »
If refining the diluted bitumen before putting it in tankers was such an economic win, why doesn't Horgan take that project on for BC?  If he thinks making dil-bit into refined products to export is a huge win, he could bring BC onboard to do that here, so that the dil-bit doesn't ever reach the port. He could save the environment, create BC jobs, and support national unity all at once! He'd be a big hero. 

But he won't, because he knows that in reality, all his talk about the economic benefits of doing the refining in Canada aren't supported by a real-world economic case.

tru dat! Notwithstanding no new refineries are being built in North America... only limited/few expansions to existing refineries... BigOil companies choose to build those expansions in the U.S. - prevailing market size, dominant distribution networking and all that! These being the same BigOil companies reaping mega-profits from the tarsands while casting off royalty crumbs to the province of Alberta.

the only economic cases left to support new output capacity investment in Alberta are to build upgraders; notwithstanding market forces driven by U.S. shale sourced light and ultra-light oil has dramatically reduced the demand for Alberta's upgrader output of light/sweet crude... leaving the real/only economic viable output from Alberta upgraders to be that of heavy diluted bitumen. There may be a case for so-called 'partial upgrading' to raise the quality of bitumen while reducing the level of expensive diluent that in itself also takes up pipeline capacity.

Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #732 on: April 19, 2018, 01:33:19 am »
The Saudis are spending 44 billion dollars to build oil refineries... in INDIA.

Do you think that if refining the oil before exporting it was such an economic no-brainer, that the Saudis would be spending $44 billion to do the exact opposite?

huh! What 'exact opposite' is the Saudi Aramco company doing?

as an aside:

Saudis, SoftBank Plan World's Largest Solar Project - 200GW of solar capacity @ $200 billion investment

Quote
Saudi Arabia and SoftBank Group Corp. signed a memorandum of understanding to build a $200 billion solar power development that’s exponentially larger than any other project.

At 200 gigawatts, the Softbank project planned for the Saudi desert would be about 100 times larger than the next biggest proposed development and more than double what the global photovoltaic industry supplied last year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

Saudi Arabia touts US$500 billion wind and solar powered investment zone

Quote
Saudi Arabia has announced a US$500 billion investment for an industrial and business zone spanning 26,000 square km (10,230 square miles) over three countries, to be fully powered by solar energy and wind power.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #733 on: April 19, 2018, 06:25:31 am »
So let's get rid of equalization. Simple.
Let’s end the confederacy. Simple.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #734 on: April 19, 2018, 07:45:47 am »
Alberta has contributed far more to confederation than any province except for Ontario.  Alberta's resource industry has been **** FANTASTIC for all of confederation.

Ontario has never once whined and cried like the little spoiled brat Alberta which does that continually. You forgot to mention the District of Athabaska where all those resources are was another gift to the rotten little child.
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