Canadian Politics Today

You ignore the reality that a fossil fuel backup when idle doesn't use any of the fossil fuel. NG turbines make great backup because they are fast to start/stop and relatively inexpensive to construct.

Yep - but they are still fossil fuels and will be a permanent part of any grid. As for the cost of building: they are ridiculously expensive to build if they have to be left in an idle state most of the time (i.e. not generating revenue from power sales). So if you want to cost renewables you must include the cost of building and maintaining these backup generators because renewables are useless without them. Almost no one includes that cost when they want to pretend that renewable economics is better than it is.

They want to get more bitumen to export... shipping more bitumen and less refined product through the existing pipeline would be one way to do that.

 -k

Empty threats....    you think it’s more profitable to sell a pipeline full of unrefined oil, or a pipeline full of refined gas?   The math is simple.

I'm aware.  That was my point.  If both coasts in Canada and previously Obama are objecting to something, maybe it's time for a little self-reflection for Alberta.

Obama was playing pure politics, solidifying the left wing of the Democratic party. His decision had nothing to do with the danger of a pipeline spill or environmental damage.
And Atlantic Canada doesn't seem to have much objectiont to all the oil tankers and refineries they've got, not to mention the oil wells offshore.

BC, meanwhile has no problem with digging up massive quantities of coal and exporting that through their prescious Vancouver port.

I don't know a lot about the issue.  But i'd say if the people of BC don't want the pipeline, that's their choice, it's their province.  If Alberta pays them enough for the use of land and maybe they'll change their mind.

I dunno i see both sides, it's tough.  It's for the national interest for the economy but also it's BC's territory, it's not fed land.  I believe in local sovereignty.  I don't know what the constitution says about this though, provinces and the fed negotiated this stuff back in 1867.  Provinces got health care and education (not a big deal back then), the feds got control over canals (a big deal back then) lol.

If you believe in 'local sovereignty' then you don't believe in Canada. You can't believe in both. Is BC an independent nation with control and sovereignty over its own land or is it a subordinate government under a federation? If the latter then it doesn't 'control' its territory except as defined by the constitution. And the constitution makes it very, very clear the federal government makes the decisions when it comes to issues of national importance, including the transit of goods and materials from province to province and for export. The province has NO legal say in it. The federal government can expropriate the land if it needs to. Its done it before. Look into how BC tried to pressure the Amricans over salmon fishing a while back by threatening to close down a torpedo training area the US navy uses. The federal government expropriated the area, and that was that.

No society can be ruled by NIMBYism, which is what this is. Nobody wants a pipeline, a highway, a garbage dump, a prison, an oil refinery, a railroad track or any other unpleasant things near them. If you believe in 'local control' then you believe locals have the right to refuse all such things. Which means no highways, no railroads, no airports, sewage treatment plants, etc.

Ontario and Quebec derived zero benefit from Energy East pipeline. There is only one refinery capable of taking dilbit, Levis, and it is supplied by the pipeline through Sarnia to Montreal and there by tanker down the St. Lawrence.

Ontario and Quebec get large amounts of money from the federal government. The federal government taxes economic activity. The cost to our economy of shipping oil to the US at a $30 a barrel discount amounts to billions of dollars. We need that money to pay for the slops for the troughs Quebec and Ontario keep filling for their herds. So Energy East was most certainly in the interest of Canada's economy, which means to Quebec and Ontario.

Canada already gets ~60% of it's electrical energy from a renewable (hydro) and others continue to increase in use and decrease in cost. Fossil's will eventually rise infinitely in cost as we get to the last barrels. The need to get off fossil fuel is obvious.

Fossil fuels are not going to run out for many decades.

Well at least you seem to understand that they ARE going to run out.

You do realize that the rare earths and lithium need for high tech batteries, wind power and solar panels are going to run out eventually?