Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9912 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #660 on: April 17, 2018, 03:00:29 pm »
Sure, but I was talking about Quebec and Ontario.  You said both pipelines should have been approved and I said sure, or by the same logic both should be denied.

Not fair to force one province and not the others, who just happen to be huge voting blocs.

Sure but that has nothing to do with whether this pipeline should be built or not.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #661 on: April 17, 2018, 03:04:48 pm »
What do you think of him forcing a pipeline through BC against the wishes of the government? 

You haven't commented much on that thread, but from the posts you "Agree" with, I get the feeling you don't mind a little selective dictatorship from the feds.

I don't know a lot about the issue.  But i'd say if the people of BC don't want the pipeline, that's their choice, it's their province.  If Alberta pays them enough for the use of land and maybe they'll change their mind.

I dunno i see both sides, it's tough.  It's for the national interest for the economy but also it's BC's territory, it's not fed land.  I believe in local sovereignty.  I don't know what the constitution says about this though, provinces and the fed negotiated this stuff back in 1867.  Provinces got health care and education (not a big deal back then), the feds got control over canals (a big deal back then) lol.
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #662 on: April 17, 2018, 03:08:53 pm »
I don't know a lot about the issue.  But i'd say if the people of BC don't want the pipeline, that's their choice, it's their province.  If Alberta pays them enough for the use of land and maybe they'll change their mind.

I dunno i see both sides, it's tough.  It's for the national interest for the economy but also it's BC's territory, it's not fed land.  I believe in local sovereignty.  I don't know what the constitution says about this though, provinces and the fed negotiated this stuff back in 1867.  Provinces got health care and education (not a big deal back then), the feds got control over canals (a big deal back then) lol.

In the case of Energy East, you have Ontario and Quebec dictating to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia what can run through their land. Is that right?
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Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #663 on: April 17, 2018, 03:24:39 pm »
I don't know a lot about the issue.  But i'd say if the people of BC don't want the pipeline, that's their choice, it's their province.
We are all canadians and that is supposed to mean something. BC has a moral obligation to facilitate the export of goods from other provinces. If one province can prohibit the transport of goods from another province then what is the point of having a country?

  I don't know what the constitution says about this though, provinces and the fed negotiated this stuff back in 1867.
The constitution deals quite specifically with this kind of issue because the founders understood that allowing local governments to extort tolls from other provinces wishing to export goods would cause the country to disitigrate. The net result is the feds have 100% authority to approve transportation projects that are for the benefit of Canada (or at least 3 provinces). I provided a reference to the exact clause in the thread above.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 03:48:39 pm by TimG »

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #664 on: April 17, 2018, 03:31:46 pm »
Ontario and Quebec derived zero benefit from Energy East pipeline. There is only one refinery capable of taking dilbit, Levis, and it is supplied by the pipeline through Sarnia to Montreal and there by tanker down the St. Lawrence.

Our country would be in a much better situation if say 35 years ago or so we decided to focus on energy self sufficiency and built infrastructure for the benefit of all Canadians. Alas, nobody had the foresight.

Offline Goddess

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #665 on: April 17, 2018, 03:49:11 pm »

Our country would be in a much better situation if say 35 years ago or so we decided to focus on energy self sufficiency and built infrastructure for the benefit of all Canadians. Alas, nobody had the foresight.

We don't seem to have the hindsight, either.

I'm all for reducing drastically or completely eliminating our need for oil.  But what do we do in the meantime?  If all the protesters had their way and the oil industry was KAPUT/FINISHED in Canada tomorrow - what would they do?  There is nothing to replace it with.

I'd like to see our government make solar and wind power affordable.  Make some investments in alternative power sources.  Grants to help Canadians make the switch.  PETA and Greenpeace can still demonstrate over all the birds killed by wind turbines, bless their hearts.
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Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #666 on: April 17, 2018, 03:55:50 pm »
I'd like to see our government make solar and wind power affordable.  Make some investments in alternative power sources.  Grants to help Canadians make the switch.
More money won't make a technically inadequate power source viable. The only things governments can do at this point is fund R&D into finding viable alternatives and hope something appears. Wind and solar can only supplement fossil fuel/nuclear/hydro sources and only at a great cost (i.e. it invariably cheaper to simply use the backup power directly instead of wasting money on renewables since renewables are optional but the backup power is mandatory).

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #667 on: April 17, 2018, 03:59:32 pm »
Ontario and Quebec derived zero benefit from Energy East pipeline. There is only one refinery capable of taking dilbit, Levis, and it is supplied by the pipeline through Sarnia to Montreal and there by tanker down the St. Lawrence.



Much better to buy 650,000 barrels a day at world price from such stellar suppliers as Saudi Arabia, Angola and Nigeria than from those A holes in Alberta.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #668 on: April 17, 2018, 04:04:32 pm »
Much better to buy 650,000 barrels a day at world price from such stellar suppliers as Saudi Arabia, Angola and Nigeria than from those A holes in Alberta.

I guess you didn't read the second part of my post.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #669 on: April 17, 2018, 04:08:00 pm »
I guess you didn't read the second part of my post.

I did. Other countries are building refineries to handle the stuff, we won’t even if it means using our own resources instead of from some of the worst regimes out there.
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #670 on: April 17, 2018, 04:08:11 pm »
More money won't make a technically inadequate power source viable. The only things governments can do at this point is fund R&D into finding viable alternatives and hope something appears. Wind and solar can only supplement fossil fuel/nuclear/hydro sources and only at a great cost (i.e. it invariably cheaper to simply use the backup power directly instead of wasting money on renewables since renewables are optional but the backup power is mandatory).

Canada already gets ~60% of it's electrical energy from a renewable (hydro) and others continue to increase in use and decrease in cost. Fossil's will eventually rise infinitely in cost as we get to the last barrels. The need to get off fossil fuel is obvious.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #671 on: April 17, 2018, 04:09:41 pm »
simply use the backup power directly instead of wasting money on renewables since renewables are optional but the backup power is mandatory).

You ignore the reality that a fossil fuel backup when idle doesn't use any of the fossil fuel. NG turbines make great backup because they are fast to start/stop and relatively inexpensive to construct.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #672 on: April 17, 2018, 04:10:56 pm »
we won’t

You mean the mostly foreign owners won't. Again get back to building a national infrastructure that you keep missing.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #673 on: April 17, 2018, 04:15:46 pm »
You mean the mostly foreign owners won't. Again get back to building a national infrastructure that you keep missing.

Chicken or egg what.
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Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #674 on: April 17, 2018, 04:19:18 pm »
Canada already gets ~60% of it's electrical energy from a renewable (hydro)
BC, Manitoba, Quebec and Newfoundland have enough hydro for their current populations. The rest need fossil fuel or nuclear baseload. Even if renewables were free to build they cannot eliminate the need for reliable power sources and no amount of wishful thinking will change this.