Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9981 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline BC_cheque

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2237
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #465 on: April 09, 2018, 01:27:44 pm »

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #466 on: April 09, 2018, 01:34:35 pm »
I also regret calling you melodramatic, but equalization payments are written into the constitution and I don't think that level of escalation is needed for what is essentially a legal dispute.  You say it's cut and dry, some legal experts disagree.
Some legal experts have been paid to come up with a legal strategy that can be taken to court but it is a strategy that completely ignores the spirit of the constitution which was to allow the feds to control transportation of goods and to prevent nonsense like we are seeing today. The idea that a province could effectively usurp federal authority by simply declaring it to an "environmental issue" is completely absurd. IOW, it is not a question that is really open for reasonable debate. BC is trying to trigger a constitutional crisis.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 01:37:01 pm by TimG »

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #467 on: April 09, 2018, 01:42:54 pm »
to allow the feds to control transportation of goods

Are you suggesting that the pipeline infrastructure be nationalized?
Like Like x 1 View List

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #468 on: April 09, 2018, 02:49:16 pm »
Are you suggesting that the pipeline infrastructure be nationalized?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_92(10)_of_the_Constitution_Act,_1867

Quote
Section 92(10) of the Constitution Act, 1867, also known as the works and undertakings power, grants the provincial legislatures of Canada the authority to legislate on:

10. Local Works and Undertakings other than  such as are of the following Classes:

(a) Lines of Steam or other Ships, Railways, Roads, Telegraphs, and other Works and Undertakings connecting the Province with any other or others of the Provinces, or extending beyond the Limits of the Province;
(b) Lines of Steam Ships between the Province and any British or Foreign Country;

(c) Such Works as, although wholly situate within the Province, are before or after their Execution declared by the Parliament of Canada to be for the general Advantage of Canada or for the Advantage of Three or more of the Provinces.

Section 92(10)(a) and (b) grants federal jurisdiction over modes of interprovincial and international transportation and communication, leaving intraprovincial transportation and communication to the provinces. Section 92(10)(c), however, applies to works of all types.

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #469 on: April 09, 2018, 02:50:21 pm »
Some legal experts have been paid to come up with a legal strategy that can be taken to court but it is a strategy that completely ignores the spirit of the constitution which was to allow the feds to control transportation of goods and to prevent nonsense like we are seeing today. The idea that a province could effectively usurp federal authority by simply declaring it to an "environmental issue" is completely absurd. IOW, it is not a question that is really open for reasonable debate. BC is trying to trigger a constitutional crisis.

Oh I wouldn't get my knickers in too much of a knot, the constitution gets tested from time to time, that's part of what courts and lawyers are for. BC will lose this one and things will carry on. I don't see a "crisis" developing, possibly just a "day in court".
Like Like x 2 View List

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #470 on: April 09, 2018, 08:10:54 pm »
**** happens.

How do you get out of bed in the morning?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #471 on: April 09, 2018, 08:26:09 pm »
Oh I wouldn't get my knickers in too much of a knot, the constitution gets tested from time to time, that's part of what courts and lawyers are for. BC will lose this one and things will carry on. I don't see a "crisis" developing, possibly just a "day in court".

Kinder Morgan is saying they are not going to keep playing Whack a Mole with BC in the courts. They want certainty and they want it by May 31 because they are looking at a more than 7 billion investment. The three governments better get their **** together or we will be in a very destructive war with no winner. BC may get the pipeline stopped but anyone looking at resource development will avoid the place like a plague. You can bet your ass that potential LNG investors are watching this very closely.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #472 on: April 09, 2018, 09:00:27 pm »
You can bet your ass that potential LNG investors are watching this very closely.
Yep. Lots of LNG suppliers in the world today. No global corporation needs to put up with the dysfunctional Canadian political process. The stupid thing is Horgan, by pandering to the eco-fanatics on KM, undermines the negotiating position of BC on LNG which means that if LNG gets built it will be only with terms that are extremely unfavourable to BC and Canada (massive subsidies, tax breaks, below market royalties).

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #473 on: April 09, 2018, 09:18:35 pm »
Kinder Morgan is saying they are not going to keep playing Whack a Mole with BC in the courts. They want certainty and they want it by May 31 because they are looking at a more than 7 billion investment. The three governments better get their **** together or we will be in a very destructive war with no winner. BC may get the pipeline stopped but anyone looking at resource development will avoid the place like a plague. You can bet your ass that potential LNG investors are watching this very closely.

Rather hard for resource development companies to avoid places that actually have resources don't you think? The feds have power under various provisions in the constitution (section 90 being one) and KM will proceed. I'm sure they built delays into their schedule knowing full well there would be challenges they would have to deal with.

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #474 on: April 09, 2018, 10:35:06 pm »
Rather hard for resource development companies to avoid places that actually have resources don't you think? The feds have power under various provisions in the constitution (section 90 being one) and KM will proceed. I'm sure they built delays into their schedule knowing full well there would be challenges they would have to deal with.

We compete with many other places which have resources, Australia in particular when it comes to the Far East. Kinder Morgan can invest in other countries just as easily as it can invest in ours. They are not going to proceed with a 7 billion dollar investment if it is continually in court with a BC government trying to change the rules. KM is a huge company, Canada is just a part of it. Alberta on the other hand, sees this as a matter of economic survival and of course from a national point of view, it boils down to whether individual provinces have the right to restrict the flow of goods between provinces and other countries.

https://www.bnn.ca/canada-s-reputation-is-in-tatters-over-trans-mountain-says-former-encana-ceo-1.1051630
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 10:57:06 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #475 on: April 10, 2018, 08:27:25 am »
Kinder Morgan is saying they are not going to keep playing Whack a Mole with BC in the courts. They want certainty and they want it by May 31 because they are looking at a more than 7 billion investment. The three governments better get their **** together or we will be in a very destructive war with no winner. BC may get the pipeline stopped but anyone looking at resource development will avoid the place like a plague. You can bet your ass that potential LNG investors are watching this very closely.

Take it or leave it, we will not be held hostage by corporate thugs.

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #476 on: April 10, 2018, 09:12:13 am »
Corporate thugs who have just spent a billion dollars trying to play by the rules. Money probably better spent greasing the palms of some corrupt third world government. The next time BC wants to develope something, it better be prepared to pay its own way.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline kimmy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5033
  • Location: Kim City BC
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #477 on: April 10, 2018, 09:24:02 am »
As with Walder Frey and his bridge, so with John Horgan and his port.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #478 on: April 10, 2018, 09:37:40 am »
Take it or leave it, we will not be held hostage by corporate thugs.
The only thugs in this narrative are the eco-fanatics who think that only they are entitled to decide what is best for the country and refuse any attempt to compromise.

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8715
Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #479 on: April 10, 2018, 10:35:54 am »
The only thugs in this narrative are the eco-fanatics who think that only they are entitled to decide what is best for the country and refuse any attempt to compromise.

what's the 'thug factor' in Kinder Morgan giving a walk-away deadline date?