Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9878 times)

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guest7

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #330 on: March 28, 2018, 03:38:36 pm »
You do realize that we have developed cars and furnaces etc. that run on electricity instead of such things a coal, right? And we're doing it because science has shown us we need to because of AGW.

Yeah.  What I failed to realise, that you obviously knew right off the bat, is that 100% of the world's electricity comes from renewable resources.  Hydro, right?

I should have known, as I ditched my coal burning car a long time ago.

Oops...

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/11/climate-change-carbon-emissions-rising-environment/

Still, not to worry.  Getting that pipeline stopped will do the trick!

Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #331 on: March 28, 2018, 03:46:19 pm »
Yeah.  What I failed to realise, that you obviously knew right off the bat, is that 100% of the world's electricity comes from renewable resources.  Hydro, right?

I should have known, as I ditched my coal burning car a long time ago.

Oops...

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/11/climate-change-carbon-emissions-rising-environment/

Still, not to worry.  Getting that pipeline stopped will do the trick!

Your feeble attempt at sarcasm falls pretty flat. Maybe try harder.
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guest7

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #332 on: March 28, 2018, 04:26:42 pm »
Your feeble attempt at sarcasm falls pretty flat. Maybe try harder.

Hey, it worked for me.  It did the trick.
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #333 on: March 28, 2018, 04:35:34 pm »
Hey, it worked for me.  It did the trick.

Good for you.

Online wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #334 on: March 28, 2018, 05:28:32 pm »
Wouldn't self immolation actually make climate change worse?  There should be a study...

Good point, what would you use if petroleum products couldn't be on the list?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Online wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #335 on: March 28, 2018, 05:36:11 pm »
You're really like a chihuahua biting at the ankle with this small detail. 

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  The article that I quoted wasn't trying to make these people sound like antifa.  If you'd read it in context, he was just talking about the level of passion from the protesters.

His point is how bad this is going to make Trudeau look when you see indigenous leaders and old people getting arrested (add a couple of MP's to list since publication) while he goes about signing environmental treaties that go completely against this permit.

I wasn't thinking antifa, more along the lines of overly dramatic. Of course "whatever it takes" really means nothing because everyone will have a different limit when it comes to what they are willing to do.

I'm an old people, doesn't bother me a bit.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Online wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #336 on: March 28, 2018, 05:40:55 pm »
And I would remind you that India has in the neighborhood of 36 times the population of Canada so yeah, they may just have a few more emissions than us. duh. They have also pledged to cut those emissions by a third by 2030. Fudging numbers to suit your position is easily spotted.

Some of it by increasing their nuclear capacity by 50%. Another thing that Canadians can't stand.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

guest7

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #337 on: March 28, 2018, 06:02:18 pm »
Good point, what would you use if petroleum products couldn't be on the list?

Given the location, I imagine avacado oil would be considered.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #338 on: March 28, 2018, 06:08:44 pm »
It's a **** protest. It's not the end of the world.

So funny that you recognize over the top rhetoric, only when it suits your purposes.

The difference being, of course, I never claimed the pipeline was 'game over' for the planet. It's important for our economy, however, while the oil sands really don't matter to the overall planet's environment.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #339 on: March 28, 2018, 10:10:01 pm »
Some of it by increasing their nuclear capacity by 50%. Another thing that Canadians can't stand.

If nuclear fusion becomes a reality, some significant portion of the enviro-weenies will still oppose it because atoms are bad.

And if a car that generates zero C02 emissions and runs on 100% renewable resources became available, some portion of the enviro-weenies would still oppose it, because roads blah-blah-blah urban sprawl blah-blah over-consumption, blah blah not everybody can afford cars, blah-blah, unsustainability, blah blah blah blah blah.

Some portion of these people are just Luddites who would be happier if we were all subsistence-level hunter-gatherers living in caves and trying to figure out whether rocks are edible.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #340 on: March 28, 2018, 10:22:27 pm »
If nuclear fusion becomes a reality, some significant portion of the enviro-weenies will still oppose it because atoms are bad.

And if a car that generates zero C02 emissions and runs on 100% renewable resources became available, some portion of the enviro-weenies would still oppose it, because roads blah-blah-blah urban sprawl blah-blah over-consumption, blah blah not everybody can afford cars, blah-blah, unsustainability, blah blah blah blah blah.

Some portion of these people are just Luddites who would be happier if we were all subsistence-level hunter-gatherers living in caves and trying to figure out whether rocks are edible.

 -k

So you just like burning up fossil fuels it seems. Obviously you've never travelled to a country that burns coal for heat and sucked a bit of that up your weenie nose. The luddites are those who don't understand science, or they have a portfolio heavily weighted with exxon mobil shares.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #341 on: March 28, 2018, 10:34:49 pm »
Some portion of these people are just Luddites

Very true, and about 1% of the luddites are enviro-weenies, and 99% are fossil fuel belchers.

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #342 on: March 28, 2018, 10:42:30 pm »
You do realize that we have developed cars and furnaces etc. that run on electricity instead of such things a coal, right? And we're doing it because science has shown us we need to because of AGW.

One of my Norther Alberta rural redneck cousins runs his family's home on 100% renewable energy. He does this because the economics made sense.  The cost of running a Trans-Alta Ultility line to his home was greater than the cost of building a solar power farm sufficient to supply his family's electrical needs.

Economics *will* win this argument sooner or later.

Electrical motors are superior in every respect to reciprocating piston engines.  Electrical vehicles *will* replace reciprocating piston vehicles sooner or later. It's inevitable.  How long it takes just depends on how long it takes for electrical energy storage density to reach a level that approaches chemical energy storage density.  (added wild-card: fuel cells.  If fuel cell technology improves to the point that a chemical fuel-cell, electrical battery, and electrical motor combination is comparable in weight to an equivalent piston engine, that's the end of the road for piston engines.)     

(Something that I'm very interested in, that I haven't heard anything about is the potential of gas turbine engines applied as backup electrical generators in motor vehicles. Once upon a time Chrysler built some experimental cars using gas turbine engines instead of piston engines. Gas turbines are much more efficient than piston engines. The reason they suck in automobile applications is that gas turbine engines don't like to run at different speeds. They like to run at a steady RPM zone where their efficiency is at its optimum. So they suck as a primary driveline motor for vehicles, where speed is always changing. But if a gas turbine were deployed as an electrical generator in a vehicle where an electric motor was the primary driveline motor, the gas turbine could operate in it's peak efficiency zone and deliver much higher efficiency than a reciprocating piston engine.
Electrical motor efficiency x peak gas turbine efficiency x electrical conversion losses > reciprocating piston engine efficiency.)

In terms of power, I think that the most powerful engines we have-- trains, large ocean vessels, and so on-- are electrical generators (diesel or nuclear) driving electrical motors, driving hydraulic systems.

Eventually, our existing technologies will be replaced by something better, simply for economic reasons.  And we can accelerate that process by incentivizing adoption of cleaner technology through public policy (ie, taxes on carbon emissions, tax credits for clean technologies, etc.)

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #343 on: March 28, 2018, 10:45:59 pm »
So you just like burning up fossil fuels it seems. Obviously you've never travelled to a country that burns coal for heat and sucked a bit of that up your weenie nose. The luddites are those who don't understand science, or they have a portfolio heavily weighted with exxon mobil shares.

I'm the greenest person here. I walk to work, and I live in a small home with the most efficient lighting and heating available.

However, I appreciate the importance of energy to our way of life.   Next time you're out and about, stop by a construction site and check out all the wind-powered cranes and solar-powered bulldozers on site.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #344 on: March 28, 2018, 11:01:46 pm »
If fuel cell technology improves to the point that a chemical fuel-cell, electrical battery, and electrical motor combination is comparable in weight to an equivalent piston engine, that's the end of the road for piston engines.

Yes, probably so. Note however that most of the hydrogen in fuel-cells is derived from natural gas in a very energy intensive process so it is no magic bullet.

Concerning a turbine generator / electric drive train, that is also being looked at for aircraft as well. While we are still a long ways off from it coming to market, the advantage there is the high cost of a turbine is more easily justified in an aircraft. Certainly volume will bring price down, but for consumer products it seems like a long shot. The target advantage for aircraft will be weight savings and emissions reduction.

Gas turbine trains have been experimented with, and a few went into service about 50-60 years ago. The original French TGV prototype was a gas turbine locomotive, but they opted for overhead wires after that. Not too many years ago Bombardier was working on a gas turbine locomotive, but I have not heard of any customers.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 11:11:00 pm by ?Impact »