Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9908 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #315 on: March 28, 2018, 11:12:20 am »
His point is how bad this is going to make Trudeau look when you see indigenous leaders and old people getting arrested

equal opportunity waldo: are there not Indigenous communities/leaders actively engaged in resource development, who support pipelines - who support Trans Mountain?

again, what should PM Trudeau have done - what would you have PM Trudeau do?

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #316 on: March 28, 2018, 11:15:12 am »
I know my perception in 2015 was that Kinder Morgan and Energy East would most likely proceed but perhaps have a more detailed review process. Did you see this differently?

In addition to not overhauling the review process, he also said he would work with and respect indigenous groups.  He also famously said governments can grant permits but ultimately it's communities that grant permits.  Both the city of Vancouver and the City of Burnaby are opposed the project but it doesn't seem to matter (in his defense when he said ultimately it's communities that grant permission he was talking about Quebec so maybe Vancouver isn't as important).

Along with all the bashing he did beforehand about Harper's environmental policies, yes, I was under the impression Kinder Morgan expansion could be halted since it was against the wishes of the local and indigenous communities.

I was at my husband's aunt's 75th birthday.  Someone got her a congrats from Trudeau's office and in front of a room full of her peers she said she liked him until he approved the (KM) project.  The room of about 50-60 people, mostly her age, started to clap.

Unlike me, these are the kind of people who normally support Liberals.  The resentment runs deep out here in the Lower Mainland and in my opinion, it will cost him in the next election.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 11:21:32 am by BC_cheque »

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #317 on: March 28, 2018, 11:18:29 am »
I too would like to hear workable ideas as to what should be done.

Do we cancel railway loads and the TMX?

Do we watch Mad Max to get ready for the coming chaos from this?  For the love of gawd please no - such as POS movie....

Do we point out the hypocrisy of Horgan and question his progressive credentials given his selling out to LNG where we could see our carbon taxes help subsidize the largets carbon polluter in BC history if/when it is built?

As I have said: insane.

Horgan has disappointed me not only in LNG but also in the way he's tackled the housing crisis.  It's better than what the Liberals did, but not good enough. 

But let's stay focused here.  Are you saying I should give Trudeau a pass on breaking his promises because Horgan is giving carbon tax subsidies to LNG?


Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #318 on: March 28, 2018, 11:20:23 am »
equal opportunity waldo: are there not Indigenous communities/leaders actively engaged in resource development, who support pipelines - who support Trans Mountain?

again, what should PM Trudeau have done - what would you have PM Trudeau do?

Hmm, I could flip that right back at you.  If indigenous communities and local governments will always be in opposition of pipelines, why did he pretend he was going to respect their wishes?

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #319 on: March 28, 2018, 01:20:23 pm »
If indigenous communities and local governments will always be in opposition of pipelines, why did he pretend he was going to respect their wishes?
Many people voted for Trudeau based on the assumption that Liberals 'campaign from the left and govern from right'. i.e. despite the rhetoric people expected sensible economic policies from the Liberals. If he accepted the ridiculous notion that municipalities had a veto over national projects then a lot of people who voted for him would be more pissed off than you.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #320 on: March 28, 2018, 01:56:00 pm »
Many people voted for Trudeau based on the assumption that Liberals 'campaign from the left and govern from right'. i.e. despite the rhetoric people expected sensible economic policies from the Liberals. If he accepted the ridiculous notion that municipalities had a veto over national projects then a lot of people who voted for him would be more pissed off than you.

So basically you're agreeing that he lied but you're spinning it in a positive light because you liked the parts he lied about.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #321 on: March 28, 2018, 02:08:13 pm »
I think the pro pollution zealots have done more than their fair share of confirming they will not compromise on anything short of disaster for future generations to enrich their current pockets.

It's a **** pipeline. It's not the end of the world. Nothing Canada does is going to have ANY impact on 'future generations'. This lunatic idea that the Alberta oil sands makes it 'game over' for the environment ignores reality even more than enviro-mental types usually do. India's NEW CO2 emissions will pump 12 times more CO2 into the atmosphere this year than the oil sands. And they'll increase their emissions by the same amount every year for the next ten years. No matter how desperately you want to think that just by destroying our economy we will lower world CO2 emissions it simply won't.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #322 on: March 28, 2018, 02:10:02 pm »
Thanks for the discussion kimmy but we're going in circles here.  As I've said before, I really don't expect anything more from the premier of Alberta even though I will toast getting this half-baked NDP booted out after one term. 

Damn her for not being fanatic enough to satisfy the fanatics!  ::)
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #323 on: March 28, 2018, 02:11:12 pm »
So basically you're agreeing that he lied but you're spinning it in a positive light because you liked the parts he lied about.
I am saying that no matter what he did he would have disappointed some of his voters. Also, politicians when they get into power have an obligation to represent the *entire* country and not just the people that voted for them. That requires that some promises be ignored no matter what politicians gets into power. You can bet that Notley never planned on becoming the oil industry booster she is today when she was running. But once she was elected she could not ignore the cold hard economics of Alberta's economy. The same is true of pipelines and Trudeau. If K&M does not get built it will be very bad for the Canadian economy because it will send a message to investors "don't waste your money in Canada because they give every NIMBY with an axe to grind a veto over major projects".

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #324 on: March 28, 2018, 02:11:50 pm »
Wouldn't self immolation actually make climate change worse?  There should be a study...

Maybe a nice drown-in together, with suitable dramatic music as they all walk nobly into the sea.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #325 on: March 28, 2018, 02:24:54 pm »
I am saying that no matter what he did he would have disappointed some of his voters. Also, politicians when they get into power have an obligation to represent the *entire* country and not just the people that voted for them. That requires that some promises be ignored no matter what politicians gets into power. You can bet that Notley never planned on becoming the oil industry booster she is today when she was running. But once she was elected she could not ignore the cold hard economics of Alberta's economy. The same is true of pipelines and Trudeau. If K&M does not get built it will be very bad for the Canadian economy because it will send a message to investors "don't waste your money in Canada because they give every NIMBY with an axe to grind a veto over major projects".


That's actually one of the most sensible posts I've ever read from you and I don't disagree, but as someone who felt betrayed by the broken promise, I will still go on to celebrate if the voters don't re-elect him next year.

At least the Conservatives don't pretend to be anything they're not.  They're shrewd fossil-fuel lovers and don't parade on the world stage as anything but.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #326 on: March 28, 2018, 02:58:51 pm »
It's a **** pipeline. It's not the end of the world. Nothing Canada does is going to have ANY impact on 'future generations'. This lunatic idea that the Alberta oil sands makes it 'game over' for the environment ignores reality even more than enviro-mental types usually do. India's NEW CO2 emissions will pump 12 times more CO2 into the atmosphere this year than the oil sands. And they'll increase their emissions by the same amount every year for the next ten years. No matter how desperately you want to think that just by destroying our economy we will lower world CO2 emissions it simply won't.

And I would remind you that India has in the neighborhood of 36 times the population of Canada so yeah, they may just have a few more emissions than us. duh. They have also pledged to cut those emissions by a third by 2030. Fudging numbers to suit your position is easily spotted.

guest7

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #327 on: March 28, 2018, 03:25:58 pm »
And I would remind you that India has in the neighborhood of 36 times the population of Canada so yeah, they may just have a few more emissions than us. duh. They have also pledged to cut those emissions by a third by 2030. Fudging numbers to suit your position is easily spotted.

You do realises that Climate Change has declared it doesn't give a toss what the population is, right?

I don't mind if people want to shut down oil sands and pipelines because they want to stick it to evil corporations and such, even if they do keep using cars and furnaces themselves, but I do wish they would stop claiming it's because of AGW.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #328 on: March 28, 2018, 03:29:17 pm »
It's a **** pipeline. It's not the end of the world.

It's a **** protest. It's not the end of the world.

So funny that you recognize over the top rhetoric, only when it suits your purposes.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #329 on: March 28, 2018, 03:35:20 pm »
You do realises that Climate Change has declared it doesn't give a toss what the population is, right?

I don't mind if people want to shut down oil sands and pipelines because they want to stick it to evil corporations and such, even if they do keep using cars and furnaces themselves, but I do wish they would stop claiming it's because of AGW.

You do realize that we have developed cars and furnaces etc. that run on electricity instead of such things a coal, right? And we're doing it because science has shown us we need to because of AGW.