Author Topic: The Wreck of BC  (Read 9950 times)

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Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #300 on: March 27, 2018, 09:33:15 pm »
Her opponents and critics said "that's a stupid idea, those people will never cooperate regardless how much CO2 you cut or how many windmills and solar panels you put up."
The stupid thing is if the anti-pipeline crowd understood the concept of compromise a lot of Albertans would have accepted all of the initiatives and even Kenny would have found it very difficult to renage. By taking a "refuse any compromise" approach the anti-pipeline zealots have simply confirmed the notion that compromise is a waste of time. This is not good for society because it simple cements divisions in society and makes it impossible to develop the consensus needed for any type of positive change.
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #301 on: March 27, 2018, 09:44:32 pm »
The stupid thing is if the anti-pipeline crowd understood the concept of compromise a lot of Albertans would have accepted all of the initiatives and even Kenny would have found it very difficult to renage. By taking a "refuse any compromise" approach the anti-pipeline zealots have simply confirmed the notion that compromise is a waste of time. This is not good for society because it simple cements divisions in society and makes it impossible to develop the consensus needed for any type of positive change.

You were doing OK until you tried to slip it in the assumption that a pipeline is necessarily a "positive change"

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #302 on: March 27, 2018, 09:45:09 pm »
Maybe you're disappointed to see the NDP actually FORM A GOVERNMENT in Alberta, but I'm quite pleased that it happened.  I think that things like championing a socially progressive agenda, and emissions reductions, and renewable resources, are worth doing. And continuing to export oil to people who need it and will buy it from somewhere else anyway is a reality that anybody who wants to be premier of Alberta has to live with.  Rachel Notley chose to accept that reality while advancing environmental issues in other ways.  If that's just too far "off the reserve" for NDP supporters to accept, that might explain a great deal about why the NDP have been so overwhelmingly ineffective for most of their existence.

No, it was actually nice to see Alberta Conservatives get booted just for the shock factor, but who are we kidding?  Everyone knew she'd be a one-term protest-vote premier.  Wait, did you actually have hopes that Alberta would find some semblance of progressiveness?? 

And yes, she's slightly above the steaming pile of poop that normally runs the province, but at the end of the day, Alberta is what it is and no matter who governs it, they will be a slightly different shade of poop since they have to appease their constituents.

I'm surprised that you're disappointed in Trudeau... I didn't think you were ever on board the Trudeau train, even from before the election.

No, I wasn't ever a fan but I preferred him to Harper.  Over Scheer, not really.

That's the 'disappointment' factor I'm talking about.  Even people I know who voted Liberal feel disappointed in him. 

Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #303 on: March 27, 2018, 09:47:11 pm »
the anti-pipeline zealots have simply confirmed

I think the pro pollution zealots have done more than their fair share of confirming they will not compromise on anything short of disaster for future generations to enrich their current pockets.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #304 on: March 27, 2018, 09:47:31 pm »
The stupid thing is if the anti-pipeline crowd understood the concept of compromise a lot of Albertans would have accepted all of the initiatives and even Kenny would have found it very difficult to renage. By taking a "refuse any compromise" approach the anti-pipeline zealots have simply confirmed the notion that compromise is a waste of time. This is not good for society because it simple cements divisions in society and makes it impossible to develop the consensus needed for any type of positive change.


What exactly is a compromise on something like this?

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #305 on: March 27, 2018, 10:00:05 pm »
No, it was actually nice to see Alberta Conservatives get booted just for the shock factor, but who are we kidding?  Everyone knew she'd be a one-term protest-vote premier.  Wait, did you actually have hopes that Alberta would find some semblance of progressiveness?? 

Despite the reputation, Alberta is a heavily urbanized province.  Edmonton has a long trend of bucking against the province's conservative leanings, and I don't know if you've noticed who Calgary's mayor has been for the past several years...

A small-L liberal agenda can work in Alberta, provided that it's balanced with the understanding that people still need FREAKIN' JOBS.

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Offline TimG

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #306 on: March 27, 2018, 10:03:16 pm »
What exactly is a compromise on something like this?
What Notley tried: build a pipeline with a carbon tax and various other GHG initiatives in the oil patch. It is a compromise that I could live with even though I think GHG reductions are a pathetic waste of resources. But I don't expect you to understand since "compromise" in your mind means "you get whatever you want an f**k everyone else".
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #307 on: March 27, 2018, 10:27:40 pm »
Despite the reputation, Alberta is a heavily urbanized province.  Edmonton has a long trend of bucking against the province's conservative leanings, and I don't know if you've noticed who Calgary's mayor has been for the past several years...

A small-L liberal agenda can work in Alberta, provided that it's balanced with the understanding that people still need FREAKIN' JOBS.



Thanks for the discussion kimmy but we're going in circles here.  As I've said before, I really don't expect anything more from the premier of Alberta even though I will toast getting this half-baked NDP booted out after one term. 

I really don't have any high hopes of anyone in oily Alberta when it comes to their oily economy.

My real issue is with the *environmentalists* sitting up in Ottawa who approved this project but for some reason you keep bringing the discussion back to Notley so on that note I wave goodbye.... as I go in another circle. 


Offline ?Impact

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #308 on: March 27, 2018, 10:49:18 pm »
My real issue is with the *environmentalists* sitting up in Ottawa who approved this project

Not sure exactly what that means. As I understand it, Trudeau made a lot of promises on the election circuit about the environment but can you show me any concerning the Kinder Morgan pipeline. He said that no pipeline should run through the Great Bear Rainforest, and pledged a moratorium on oil tankers off British Columbia’s northern coast, which was specifically about the Northern Gateway pipeline. He also talked about carbon pricing and overhaul of the National Energy Board and the review process.

I know my perception in 2015 was that Kinder Morgan and Energy East would most likely proceed but perhaps have a more detailed review process. Did you see this differently?

Offline waldo

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #309 on: March 28, 2018, 03:51:36 am »
I've previously asked (the thread's NDP supporters) just what they believe Trudeau should have done/should yet do, vis-a-vis Trans Mountain - still waiting...

Offline msj

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #310 on: March 28, 2018, 09:20:00 am »
I too would like to hear workable ideas as to what should be done.

Do we cancel railway loads and the TMX?

Do we watch Mad Max to get ready for the coming chaos from this?  For the love of gawd please no - such as POS movie....

Do we point out the hypocrisy of Horgan and question his progressive credentials given his selling out to LNG where we could see our carbon taxes help subsidize the largets carbon polluter in BC history if/when it is built?

As I have said: insane. 

I've gotta have more cow bell! -Bruce Dickinson

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #311 on: March 28, 2018, 10:06:52 am »
Do we watch Mad Max to get ready for the coming chaos from this?  For the love of gawd please no - such as POS movie....
Fight me.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #312 on: March 28, 2018, 10:31:32 am »
I'm wondering what the 23,000 who signed to do "whatever it takes" to stop the pipeline mean by "whatever it takes". Sabotage, self immolation, what?
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guest7

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #313 on: March 28, 2018, 10:50:27 am »
I'm wondering what the 23,000 who signed to do "whatever it takes" to stop the pipeline mean by "whatever it takes". Sabotage, self immolation, what?

Wouldn't self immolation actually make climate change worse?  There should be a study...

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Wreck of BC
« Reply #314 on: March 28, 2018, 11:04:31 am »
I'm wondering what the 23,000 who signed to do "whatever it takes" to stop the pipeline mean by "whatever it takes". Sabotage, self immolation, what?

You're really like a chihuahua biting at the ankle with this small detail. 

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  The article that I quoted wasn't trying to make these people sound like antifa.  If you'd read it in context, he was just talking about the level of passion from the protesters.

His point is how bad this is going to make Trudeau look when you see indigenous leaders and old people getting arrested (add a couple of MP's to list since publication) while he goes about signing environmental treaties that go completely against this permit.